Hrothgar15 Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 But G Bugles have continued to be available to every corps every year since Bb became legal. Sure, but those couldn't be sold to marching bands after the fact. These already are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 But G Bugles have continued to be available to every corps every year since Bb became legal. Honestly if there were a true competitive advantage to switching, I'd think top corps would have already done so. Sure maybe there's going to be some new product line that's a complete game changer and everyone will want to switch back. Somehow...I don't find that very likely. Yeah it's not going to happen. As things are, the groups sound great... and all prospective camp participants can bring their own horns and play together. Even the mellophones have more access to the F mellos used by corps today because their local H.S. or collegiate marching groups use them as well. Bb/F is here to stay. Unfortunately (at least in my mind), the next phase of mutation will involve... ehem... the use of... oh dear... cane reeds and padded keys. I'm sorry to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 But G Bugles have continued to be available to every corps every year since Bb became legal. Honestly if there were a true competitive advantage to switching, I'd think top corps would have already done so. Sure maybe there's going to be some new product line that's a complete game changer and everyone will want to switch back. Somehow...I don't find that very likely. Brand new G Bugle continues to exist and there is only one manufacture making them, and that company is walking on egg shell right now. They do not do sponsorship. The competitiveness and corporate sponsorship are two different things. From what I understand, when DCI switched to Bb (or traditional key), they were persuaded by corporations, even though they did it in the name of accessibility. Some corps stay with G till as long as 2007 but they realized it's a dead end since buying new G bugles is much more expensive than buying a used set of Bb from another corps or music company. A world Class drum corps will take over $100 grand to furnish a used set from a lower tier company. Also when the switch in 2000, most of the G bugles were sold to DCA, Japan and Europe, they are gone! In fact, the drum corps in Japan are still in G. Back in the days a corps will hold on to their set of G bugles for around 5 years before buying a new set, now the top tier corps gets new horns every year and don't have to pay for them. Large corporations like Yamaha and Conn/Selmer will take the horns back each year and sell them, and get to brand them as "used set from SCV," or "Cadets." It was a brilliant move. Now companies like Yamaha get to by sells thousands of horns each year directly in large quantities directly to "nonprofit" institutes and pass local dealers! If they were still on G, that wouldn't have happen. During the G era, Div I (today's world class) had 128 members. Corps like the blue devils will have 64 horns: 24 Soprano 12 Alto 8 Baritone 8 Euphonium 10 Contrabass They are much louder than today's 150 member corps with 80 plus brass. If you're don't have experience with G era, find the following recordings: 1986 Blue Devils, 1988 Madison Scouts, 1989 Phantom Regiment, 1990 Star of Indiana, etc. Those corps generated some of loudest none amplified sound we have ever heard from out doors music activity. There is a good reason why people still talk about the old G bugle sound, because they were genuinely loud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) If you're don't have experience with G era, find the following recordings: 1986 Blue Devils, 1988 Madison Scouts, 1989 Phantom Regiment, 1990 Star of Indiana, etc. Those corps generated some of loudest none amplified sound we have ever heard from out doors music activity. There is a good reason why people still talk about the old G bugle sound, because they were genuinely loud! In your opinion, to what extent will a hornline on all new Andalucia instruments (once you've gotten to all the voices) be able to replicate this sound, or at least the volume of it? Because it's still in Bb/F I understand that a lot of the overtones from all-G won't come back, which contributed a lot to the volume. But basing everything off of Kanstul's line gives me hope you can recapture everything else. Edited June 9, 2016 by Hrothgar15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 They are much louder than today's 150 member corps with 80 plus brass. If you're don't have experience with G era, find the following recordings: 1986 Blue Devils, 1988 Madison Scouts, 1989 Phantom Regiment, 1990 Star of Indiana, etc. Those corps generated some of loudest none amplified sound we have ever heard from out doors music activity. There is a good reason why people still talk about the old G bugle sound, because they were genuinely loud! heard plenty of G in my time -- played an Olds V/R baritone :-) imo there's loud like an explosion (G bugles) and loud like a laser beam (Bb). I find I enjoy the laser beam better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) In your opinion, to what extent will a hornline on all new Andalucia instruments (once you've gotten to all the voices) be able to replicate this sound, or at least the volume of it? Because it's still in Bb/F I understand that a lot of the overtones from all-G won't come back, which contributed a lot to the volume. But basing everything off of Kanstul's line gives me hope you can recapture everything else. No bashing here on Kanstul, but their Bb marching horns are OK. Kanstul had plenty of help when they were developing the three-Valve G bugles. The Blue Devils sent their brass staff to evaluate the prototypes before finalized the design for production and they were the test bed on all of their new newer G bugles. However, They did not get the help on Bb since everyone left them in 1999. So their Bb horns were shorter versions of their G horns, except they couldn't make their Bb trumpet to work with the K20 G bugle bell, so they settled on the power bore bell, which is an new invention by itself during the late 1990's. The only horn in Bb from Kanstul that is still very G like, is their Tuba. If you can find the following recordings, you will hear the difference between each generations. 1986 Blue Devils 1988 Madison Scouts 1991 Phantom Regiment 1992 Cavaliers And fast forward to: 2001 Blue Devils 2002 Cavaliers 2003 Phantom Regiment You will hear a huge difference in sound. Because the soprano bell is with a much wider flare, the sound actually does not stand out. It blends with the mellophone much better than regular trumpet. And the loudness comes from the bottom, hence the old 5/4 Contrabass vs today's 4/4. The closest corps to G right now is Spirit. They are a Tama/Kanstul artist and their Coliseum trumpet is with the powebore bell, but still not quite the same as the K20. You will not hear the full glory of G until a top 12 corps uses my horn, but if they do, they will sound louder than the old G corps because of the 80 brass vs 64 (of the old days). Than again, only top 12 corps have the capacity to produce the full brass sound, no matter what key they are in. The best sounding Bb corps in my opinion is 2003 Phantom Regiment and 2004 Cavys. Seems like between 2005 to 2009, corps stop playing lyrics through brass, just ran around the field holding whole notes and let the percussion and pit do all the playing. Edited June 10, 2016 by Vance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 No bashing here on Kanstul, but their Bb marching horns are OK. Part of the problem is that Kanstul had plenty of help when they switched to three-Valve G. The Blue Devils sent their brass staff to evaluate the prototypes before finalized the design for production. Oops, I meant King of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 That's how I practiced my parts, in fact, between making the corps in November and moving to Concord in January and actually GETTING my sop. Ugh, I was actually issued a horn early, but maybe it was January. Can't remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 New video! Loving this sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b9F-eAeeBk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) Like corpsband Big W and I did the Olds P/R Bari... Style of play had a lot to do with it too along with construction...... key of horn... nah... Edited June 10, 2016 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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