Cedarburg Cerebration - 3 July 2016 Cedarburg, WI

[N.E. Brigand]

I know it isn't good to compare scores from across competitions, but since this competition had less judges than the other two, does that technically mean Crown and Cavies are actually higher than what the scores show? Since if they had a full panel, they could only gain points.

No, partial panels don't work that way. The five captions are doubled up as needed. Which means that a corps with, for instance, a weak brass section, might score higher at a show without a brass judge than they would at a show with a full panel.

[N.E. Brigand]

OMG.

Colt Cadets' score went up 9.2 points in one day.

They got a higher score in Cedarburg on July 3 than Legends and Genesis got in Lisle on July 2--at a show where those two corps beat Colt Cadets by an average of nine points.

And if that isn't enough fun for you:

In DCI's All-Age division, Kilties' score in twenty-four hours went up 10.8 pts.

They had 48.90 in Lisle last night but 59.70 in Cedarburg tonight.

[BRASSO]

OMG.

Colt Cadets' score went up 9.2 points in one day.

They got a higher score in Cedarburg on July 3 than Legends and Genesis got in Lisle on July 2--at a show where those two corps beat Colt Cadets by an average of nine points.

And if that isn't enough fun for you:

In DCI's All-Age division, Kilties' score in twenty-four hours went up 10.8 pts.

They had 48.90 in Lisle last night but 59.70 in Cedarburg tonight.

Comparing scores from different nites, different shows, judges will make us either insane, or have us laughing in stitches with the endeavor... or draw us a yawn. I prefer the yawn. Besides, I'm now yawning, its 2am, and I'm going to bed now while asking myself, why the hell did I stay up to read DCP so late once again ( haha!)

Edited July 4, 2016 by BRASSO

[bill]

OMG.

Colt Cadets' score went up 9.2 points in one day.

They got a higher score in Cedarburg on July 3 than Legends and Genesis got in Lisle on July 2--at a show where those two corps beat Colt Cadets by an average of nine points.

And if that isn't enough fun for you:

In DCI's All-Age division, Kilties' score in twenty-four hours went up 10.8 pts.

They had 48.90 in Lisle last night but 59.70 in Cedarburg tonight.

Coming out of last weekend (on June 26th) in Michigan City, The Kilties were at a 52 (and some change) if recalled correctly....thus the 59 and change in Cedarburg seems relatively reasonable when setting the Lisle score aside. Most of the Lisle scores for all the corps were down across the board, although the spreads seemed correct.

Edited July 4, 2016 by bill

[Tim K]

Could Boston slide to 14th? Everyone else has been making strides and they seem idle.

I have to wait till BAC compete against Blue Stars to make that conclusion. If BAC beats Blue Stars, I think we'll see the same top 12. If Colts or Troopers catch Blue Stars,that could make things interesting. Also, I think Crusaders will face off against Troopers before Crsaders face off against Blue Stars, so those results could answer that question. Crusaders show needs some rewrites which are rumored to be in the works and in some ways I do believe they are in a better place at this point this season than they were at this time last year or in 2014, but those shows were edgier and took time to develop whereas this year is a much more straightforward show. Lots of folks are saying that Troopers or Colts could return to finals or Academy could make finals for the first time. This has been predicted before, and I would love to see it happen for one or all three, but as a Boston Crusaders fan, not at BAC's expense.

In some ways this year's Boston Crusaders show reminds me a bit of 2011 and some of the same critiques have been made, and what we saw in August in 2011 was a huge improvement and while the scores were higher in 2011 at this point, judging was different too. However there is a big difference. It was pretty clear that Glassmen would fall from finals and while Troopers and Academy had very good shows, Spirit was the most likely to fill the open position. This year there are three corps that appear to be evenly matched who are hungry for a spot in finals.

[BlueStainGlass]

I have to wait till BAC compete against Blue Stars to make that conclusion. If BAC beats Blue Stars, I think we'll see the same top 12. If Colts or Troopers catch Blue Stars,that could make things interesting. Also, I think Crusaders will face off against Troopers before Crsaders face off against Blue Stars, so those results could answer that question. Crusaders show needs some rewrites which are rumored to be in the works and in some ways I do believe they are in a better place at this point this season than they were at this time last year or in 2014, but those shows were edgier and took time to develop whereas this year is a much more straightforward show. Lots of folks are saying that Troopers or Colts could return to finals or Academy could make finals for the first time. This has been predicted before, and I would love to see it happen for one or all three, but as a Boston Crusaders fan, not at BAC's expense.

In some ways this year's Boston Crusaders show reminds me a bit of 2011 and some of the same critiques have been made, and what we saw in August in 2011 was a huge improvement and while the scores were higher in 2011 at this point, judging was different too. However there is a big difference. It was pretty clear that Glassmen would fall from finals and while Troopers and Academy had very good shows, Spirit was the most likely to fill the open position. This year there are three corps that appear to be evenly matched who are hungry for a spot in finals.

Boston went head to head with Blue Stars on 6/27 (With a Blue Stars win by 1.6) and won't see them again until 7/21 in Texas. Boston was head to head with the colts at the same show as BS and wont see them again until the same show on the 21. Boston has yet to face off with the Troopers and they will meet for the first time 7/18. Boston has gone head to head with the Crossmen 5 times and doesn't look like they separate the whole season with Crossmen 4-1 with an avg of 1 point victory. Every year Academy comes out with big scores but they seem to drop once they meet up with the groups that were in their tier. Blue Stars have been about 3-4 points ahead of Troopers and possibly could be in the next tier with Madison, Phantom, and maybe when the show is finished BK (needed some humor )

You can already see a grouping trend in the scores. BD,CC,Bloo, Cadets, and Cavies 3 points apart. SCV, Phantom, Madison, and Blue Stars all within a 3 point gap. Crossmen, BK, Troopers, Academy, Colts, and Boston within 3 points of each other. I know someone will quote this and say BK will be a top 6 but you dont know that just like you didnt know Cavies would be sitting 5th. For all we know the judges could have problems with it and it stays in the second tier fighting.

[ThirdValvesAreForWimps]

I love this season! The "hidden recaps" feature is proving to one and all that some -- maybe not all -- judges did indeed previously "slot" various corps with respect to recent recaps from other shows adjudicated by other judging panels. The 2016 judging system is going to reinvigorate the activity by injecting a much needed dose of "blind fairness" back into the adjudication. The "up and down" scoring is a very good thing because it removes the predictability of competition results.

[corpsband]

I love this season! The "hidden recaps" feature is proving to one and all that some -- maybe not all -- judges did indeed previously "slot" various corps with respect to recent recaps from other shows adjudicated by other judging panels. The 2016 judging system is going to reinvigorate the activity by injecting a much needed dose of "blind fairness" back into the adjudication. The "up and down" scoring is a very good thing because it removes the predictability of competition results.

The "up and down" has everything to do with full-panel vs partial-panel and nothing to do with hiding the recaps. In fact the recaps would show this is a very ordinary season with no big "shake ups" at all. IMHO of course.

[N.E. Brigand]

The "up and down" has everything to do with full-panel vs partial-panel and nothing to do with hiding the recaps. In fact the recaps would show this is a very ordinary season with no big "shake ups" at all. IMHO of course.

It's probably too soon to say--and the Lisle show, which is what's most confusing everyone, may eventually be seen to have been just a weird outlier. Certainly for some Open Class corps that show caused some jumps in score the like of which have not been seen in many years. World Class jumps were less dramatic (even there, falling 5 points one day and jumping 4 points the next is uncommon), but it doesn't seem to be just about partial vs. full panels:

Muncie -- Lisle -- C'burg

7/1 -- 7/2 -- 7/3

full -- partial -- partial

Crown 76.85 -- 74.60 -- 76.60

Cavs 73.65 -- 72.00 -- 74.50

Stars 70.30 -- 66.30 -- 69.80

Troop 67.65 -- 62.20 -- 66.40

Colts 64.30 -- 61.80 -- 65.80

It looks like the partial panel on July 3 affirmed the finds of the full panel on July 1.

As to whether these falls and leaps as a whole are more notable than in the first weeks of the past several years likely would need a proper statistical analysis to tell.

[Tim K]

Boston went head to head with Blue Stars on 6/27 (With a Blue Stars win by 1.6) and won't see them again until 7/21 in Texas. Boston was head to head with the colts at the same show as BS and wont see them again until the same show on the 21. Boston has yet to face off with the Troopers and they will meet for the first time 7/18. Boston has gone head to head with the Crossmen 5 times and doesn't look like they separate the whole season with Crossmen 4-1 with an avg of 1 point victory. Every year Academy comes out with big scores but they seem to drop once they meet up with the groups that were in their tier. Blue Stars have been about 3-4 points ahead of Troopers and possibly could be in the next tier with Madison, Phantom, and maybe when the show is finished BK (needed some humor )

You can already see a grouping trend in the scores. BD,CC,Bloo, Cadets, and Cavies 3 points apart. SCV, Phantom, Madison, and Blue Stars all within a 3 point gap. Crossmen, BK, Troopers, Academy, Colts, and Boston within 3 points of each other. I know someone will quote this and say BK will be a top 6 but you dont know that just like you didnt know Cavies would be sitting 5th. For all we know the judges could have problems with it and it stays in the second tier fighting.

I would love to say I forgot to put the word again when I mentioned BAC facing Blue Stars, but honesty is the best policy and I was away last week in an area with very limited internet access, so I only checked to see if Crusaders beat Crossmen. So that show slipped my mind.

Numerically your points are well taken, but numbers in drum corps don't always say it all. Crossmen should not have beaten Blue Stars in 2012 at semi's, but Crossmen has a performance that was on fire and Blue Stars performance was lackluster. Cadets placed either first or second all season in 2014 but was third in finals, and no one expected 4th last year. Corps do plateau, and corps can improve. We are also seeing with Cadets right now that the right tweaks can change everything. I will admit that I do not want to give up hope that a corps I love will make finals and but the first full week in July is too early to throw in the towel, at least for me. And yes, I can be a bit sentimental. I still believe Phantom was robbed in 1979 and 27th should have won in 1980, and Crown should have won a title for the first time in 2012.