Tobias Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I love the Cadet show this year. As much as if it got an 83 last night. I think the choir is adding beautifully to the musical presentation. The uniform changes are majestic and wonderful and the field coverage is best out there. Honestly I'm absolutely shocked the judges are dumping on this show. Yes I get one needs a worthy ending but very baffled the corps is scoring where they are. If anything, Cadets are innovating this season, something they've been called to do for a while. Incorporating a live 8 person choir to interact musically is a difficult task yet all we hear is the Brass and percussion are getting drowned out with subsequent lower scores yet no EFFECT score boost for that added risk and many parts of the show are wonderful due to it. Just baffled. Edited July 13, 2017 by Tobias 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Tobias said: I love the Cadet show this year. As much as if it got an 83 last night. I think the choir is adding beautifully to the musical presentation. The uniform changes are majestic and wonderful and the field coverage is best out there. Honestly I'm absolutely shocked the judges are dumping on this show. Yes I get one needs a worthy ending but very baffled the corps is scoring where they are. well - they are still performing 3 minutes of drill they stopped practicing, the "balance" issue they must work out (judges commenting on "cant hear this or that" - this can be fixed by "thinning parts" a bit), they don't have the ending yet AND they marched 3 horn holes and 1 or 2 other holes last night as soon as they get the ending on the show will move into the 80s - just the next few days to practice and refing things will help 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, George Dixon said: well - they are still performing 3 minutes of drill they stopped practicing, the "balance" issue they must work out (judges commenting on "cant hear this or that" - this can be fixed by "thinning parts" a bit), they don't have the ending yet AND they marched 3 horn holes and 1 or 2 other holes last night as soon as they get the ending on the show will move into the 80s - just the next few days to practice and refing things will help Be that as it may, they should still be scoring very close to the Cavies. I've seen the shows ahead of Cadets and with the exception of 2, I'm not impressed at all. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Tobias said: Be that as it may, they should still be scoring very close to the Cavies. I've seen the shows ahead of Cadets and with the exception of 2, I'm not impressed at all. if we are talking "shows" - yeah, I'm not that impressed either with a couple of them. Cadets have one of the better shows of the top 8 IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoSurfBass Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, henry7184 said: No, that's not literally the only thing. I can think of a few more reasons why I feel they are declining. And, I'm not talking this year to last year - I never was. I'm talking this year to 2011. #1 perhaps the greatest. 1. They used to be among the leaders and innovators of the activity, which is not the case anymore. No one follows them. They don't lead. They're not the innovators of the activity today. Blue Devils and Bluecoats are the innovators of today. 2. They used to draw from among the top most talented brass, guard and percussion players in the activity. I'm not so sure this is the case anymore. 3. They can't seem to keep staff. There seems to be a constant revolving door. Why do you think that is? People who are happy where they work don't tend to leave, at least not in massive numbers. 4. They can't seem to put together that championship level design anymore. While I think this year is much better than last year (I'm now not so sure the judges see it that way), it is still far from a winning design. Look at what Bluecoats, BD and SCV are doing. Can you honestly say the Cadets design is on par with those three? I don't think most corps can, but we are talking about the Cadets, and their design is a far cry from the designs of those three. 5. They continually are too literal with their themes, and seem to panic when things are not going well competitively. 6. They used to be the ones to pass corps up during the course of the season, and most years finished higher than where they started. Since 2012, they have finished beneath where they started every single year, and are the ones being passed up. Yes, 2017 is a good show and I quite like it. No, it is not a top tier design. Yes, it is a step in the right direction. No, they are not nearly at medalist level again. Fair enough points, but if I may refute: 1. I may get hate for this, but the last time I felt the Cadets were ever innovative was in 2007 using vocal narration as the driving force of a show theme. Everything since then has felt like a variation on "what they do best." Nothing really pushed the envelope with them. 2. Again, as I said before, they are still a massive draw for talent. No, maybe not on a national level, but they are still THE destination corps for most Mid-Atlantic and Northeast marchers, which a very large and VERY talented pool to draw from. I'm also sure they still have a large international pull, 10-Time DCI Champions and all that. 3. Sacktig, Cipriani, and McNutt were all mainstays in the Cadets for many years, and their influence was certainly impactful on the corps. Yes, some of the lower level tech spots were a revolving door at times, and yes George may have had something to do with it, but it's not anything new or dramatic. 2016 was a disaster that pushed those guys to the brink, and the opportunity for a fresh start (and a fat check, I'm sure) was all they needed to bolt. Up top was NOT a revolving door at the Cadets, and I don't expect it to be in the future either. 4. No, the Cadets design is clearly not on the level of Bloo, BD, or SCV this year. But I wouldn't expect it to be because 1) this is the first year with these designers, and it may take a year of trial and error to make everything gel, and 2) as a result of that, The Cadets knew that this wasn't a year to go crazy with a Bloo or BD-like show. Their top-tier instructional staff left (and almost certainly took some high end talent with them too), and trying to push their kids into a top-3 show in the first year with an entirely new staff would have been borderline suicide for the corps. 5. If you can pull off the theme who cares how literal it is? And the only season I ever saw panic in was 2016, where the show faltered out of the gate. 2015's rewrite of the ending was less of a reaction to poor placement as much as it was a "too many ideas" monstrosity that collapsed in on itself. I still maintain that if that drill had cleaned up by Finals that the Cadets could have won, but it never even came close. 6. I don't really have an answer for this one, since I haven't worked with the corps. Was it motivation? Poor instruction? Poor design? Other corps simply hitting the right buttons at the right time? I'll agree with you that that's a tough trend, but again, with new staff maybe that will turn around. I think the big point I'm making here is that these aren't the same Cadets as 2012-2016. With the exception of Hoppy, most of the staff has turned over, sans the guard. With Hoppy there, the same thing COULD happen, but I really don't think it will. I think the slap in the face George got this winter and the fresh start the corps has will give him the opportunity to be a little more restrained, and that can only benefit the corps at this stage in the corps history. TL;DR: At this point, "top 7/non-medalist" is no longer "declining" for the Cadets. It's the norm, and they are still trending upward. It's the same garbage going on in the Madison thread. Edited July 13, 2017 by MotoSurfBass 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 You're forgetting Heimbecker left for BD as well. That's when I started to get concerned for the future of the corps as I always figured he would be the one to succeed Hopkins. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxfreq1128 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I just came to say I really like Cadets' show this year. The robes are fun, to me: they hide the legs, so the forms appear to be floating across the field. It's trippy. I'd compare them to Dementors but I don't want to be insensitive, given the subject. (Still, though...). I love the source music, too, and think they do it justice. But no surprises there, when haven't the Cadets done Leonard Bernstein justice? I mainly wanted to feel like I was watching an identifiably Cadets-style show this year, as I've been lacking that feeling for the last few years. They've more than satisfied that, IMO, and aren't getting enough credit for it around here. I'm not sold on this being a poorly designed show, but I'll leave that battle to the die-hards. I don't expect them to medal, or particularly mind that, because I believe in the show and the performers either way. Edited July 13, 2017 by saxfreq1128 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndrudy2013 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 2 hours ago, henry7184 said: No, that's not literally the only thing. I can think of a few more reasons why I feel they are declining. And, I'm not talking this year to last year - I never was. I'm talking this year to 2011. #1 perhaps the greatest. 1. They used to be among the leaders and innovators of the activity, which is not the case anymore. No one follows them. They don't lead. They're not the innovators of the activity today. Blue Devils and Bluecoats are the innovators of today. 2. They used to draw from among the top most talented brass, guard and percussion players in the activity. I'm not so sure this is the case anymore. 3. They can't seem to keep staff. There seems to be a constant revolving door. Why do you think that is? People who are happy where they work don't tend to leave, at least not in massive numbers. 4. They can't seem to put together that championship level design anymore. While I think this year is much better than last year (I'm now not so sure the judges see it that way), it is still far from a winning design. Look at what Bluecoats, BD and SCV are doing. Can you honestly say the Cadets design is on par with those three? I don't think most corps can, but we are talking about the Cadets, and their design is a far cry from the designs of those three. 5. They continually are too literal with their themes, and seem to panic when things are not going well competitively. 6. They used to be the ones to pass corps up during the course of the season, and most years finished higher than where they started. Since 2012, they have finished beneath where they started every single year, and are the ones being passed up. Yes, 2017 is a good show and I quite like it. No, it is not a top tier design. Yes, it is a step in the right direction. No, they are not nearly at medalist level again. Exactly right on #1 and all the other points you listed. "They used to be among the leaders and innovators of the activity". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri Schehr Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) If they work an exorcism into this show, I am out. Edited July 13, 2017 by Terri Schehr 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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