cfirwin3 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Ultimately, I think that the 'new era' of contending design comes down to a greater weight on "showboating" than on "story telling". Telling deep stories... isn't as engaging as demonstrating great feats in 12 minutes of time. I'm not sure that it has ever not been this way. I think that perhaps some winning shows in the past have jaded our perceptions on what does well. But ultimately, contending shows have always relied on "showboating". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Ballad is THE biggest musical difference between video and live. No way the current theater/stream audio setup is going to capture what is going on there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppycock Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 2 hours ago, ashyUechi said: It's part Bob Fosse and part Clockwork Orange. There's an underpinning of Clockwork Orange in their show. Yes you got it. It's brilliant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.l. Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) Watching the show now. I don't see what the big deal is with the guard uniforms, honestly. There were some members in BD '95 that wore similar tops. But maybe I'm just jaded after seeing Onyx winter guard in their last season . Edited June 23, 2017 by c.l. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbirman Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Definitely a little lost on the whole show-tuney jazz look, but loving the concept and the music! Wish they were back in Bloo :( posted from the DrumScorps app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 58 minutes ago, mingusmonk said: Ballad is THE biggest musical difference between video and live. No way the current theater/stream audio setup is going to capture what is going on there. The ballad seemed right out of the Blue Devils book, as did a lot of the staging and drill concepts. That's not a bad thing, just an interesting observation. Now I can't wait to see what BD puts on the field, to see how they might reflect what has been working for Bluecoats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 20 minutes ago, zbirman said: Definitely a little lost on the whole show-tuney jazz look, but loving the concept and the music! Wish they were back in Bloo :( posted from the DrumScorps app I will say this: I don't know why we don't have a jazz-focused corps anymore. Right now, a jazz corps that was a big sound concept as a whole would KILL in GE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 1 hour ago, cfirwin3 said: Ultimately, I think that the 'new era' of contending design comes down to a greater weight on "showboating" than on "story telling". Telling deep stories... isn't as engaging as demonstrating great feats in 12 minutes of time. I'm not sure that it has ever not been this way. I think that perhaps some winning shows in the past have jaded our perceptions on what does well. But ultimately, contending shows have always relied on "showboating". I don't agree with the concept of showboating. It's about creating a show that is entirely focused on the overall (general) effect on the viewer/listener. It's not about marching faster and playing louder anymore, and that's a great thing IMO. Look at the crowds coming to these shows. And look at the kids lining up to audition at the corps that are going in this direction...and contrast that with those that are still stuck in the previous model. It's all about talent and commitment to communicating the concept. It's what BD has perfected, it's what put Crown on the map, and it's what Bluecoats are reinventing. If you didn't think last year's Blue Devils show had deep stories, then you missed it entirely. Same with Crown's Inferno. Look at Academy and tell me that's "showboating;" that's just ###### good concept, story telling and sold out execution among the corps members. It's not about deep stories vs shallow stories, it's about having a great idea and executing it at the highest possible level. That means the kids have to totally buy in. We are seeing what happens with ###### or ill conceived concepts that the kids don't get or believe in, vs. the ones that are very well conceived that the kids totally sell out to communicate. This is the difference. It's going from a two dimensional concept to a three or four dimensional concept. Corps that can get that and do it are going to have a shot at medaling—and selling thousands of t-shirts. Those that don't are going to see audition numbers dwindle, and staffers growing frustrated with their inability to mount any momentum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Just now, MikeRapp said: I don't agree with the concept of showboating. It's about creating a show that is entirely focused on the overall (general) effect on the viewer/listener. It's not about marching faster and playing louder anymore, and that's a great thing IMO. Look at the crowds coming to these shows. And look at the kids lining up to audition at the corps that are going in this direction...and contrast that with those that are still stuck in the previous model. It's all about talent and commitment to communicating the concept. It's what BD has perfected, it's what put Crown on the map, and it's what Bluecoats are reinventing. If you didn't think last year's Blue Devils show had deep stories, then you missed it entirely. Same with Crown's Inferno. Look at Academy and tell me that's "showboating;" that's just ###### good concept, story telling and sold out execution among the corps members. It's not about deep stories vs shallow stories, it's about having a great idea and executing it at the highest possible level. That means the kids have to totally buy in. We are seeing what happens with ###### or ill conceived concepts that the kids don't get or believe in, vs. the ones that are very well conceived that the kids totally sell out to communicate. This is the difference. It's going from a two dimensional concept to a three or four dimensional concept. Corps that can get that and do it are going to have a shot at medaling—and selling thousands of t-shirts. Those that don't are going to see audition numbers dwindle, and staffers growing frustrated with their inability to mount any momentum. Perhaps my point was overly simplified. I am not presenting the two as a dichotomy (as I said, there are winning/successful shows that were quite deep). I am saying that if the show doesn't have one satisfying impact after another (and that might involve slow/soft music and standing still... if done right), then it isn't contending. A showboat is usually something that just sits there... eye-candy... all gussied up. It doesn't have to be steaming at full speed... but it does have to have a quality that prevents the viewer from taking their eyes away... or ever wanting to take their eyes away. All of those shows that you mentioned (Devil's, Crown, Academy) totally fit the criteria of showboating. On the other hand... The Bluecoats (and Crown for that matter) have never played and marched faster, louder, cleaner, etc. as often as they do now. Putting on a show means putting on a show... not a lecture, if you get my meaning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: Perhaps my point was overly simplified. I am not presenting the two as a dichotomy (as I said, there are winning/successful shows that were quite deep). I am saying that if the show doesn't have one satisfying impact after another (and that might involve slow/soft music and standing still... if done right), then it isn't contending. A showboat is usually something that just sits there... eye-candy... all gussied up. It doesn't have to be steaming at full speed... but it does have to have a quality that prevents the viewer from taking their eyes away... or ever wanting to take their eyes away. All of those shows that you mentioned (Devil's, Crown, Academy) totally fit the criteria of showboating. On the other hand... The Bluecoats (and Crown for that matter) have never played and marched faster, louder, cleaner, etc. as often as they do now. Putting on a show means putting on a show... not a lecture, if you get my meaning. Understood. There is no question (or at least shouldn't be) that this activity is becoming a "GE" activity as opposed to a mostly technical exposition. The challenge for DCI is to keep both sides fully relevant and important to high scores. We oldsters can bemoan the loss of the old days but without eyeballs, without butts in seats, and without sponsors, DCI disappears. I bristle when people downgrade Bluecoats for being a visual show. They smoked most of not all the field in playing for much of the last three seasons. They are playing an enormously complicated book. Yes their drill is geared toward GE and not toward executing a series of traditional, technical skills—but so what? Kids want to be a part of a show, not a clinical exposition. I am concerned that we are creating a have and have not world, though. The fact is, from a financial and logistics standpoint, only a small handful of corps can put a Bluecoats type of show on tour. I don't want to see finalists have to do things that are obviously a full step below the top corps from a staging standpoint only because of money. I realize, of course, that the answer to that is ultimately to increase the size of the pie, and that means releasing the limits on the corps that can wow the crowds and sponsors. It just does sting a little seeing Madison and Phantom struggle in this new era. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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