Slingerland Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Liahona said: The kid performed for Crown in 2016...the "scholarship" was earned and was applied towards the kids 2016 tour fees....then Crown revokes via email last week in 2017 because the member decided not to return to Crown and accepted a contract at Boston...something seriously wrong with this picture IMO...that is from an ethical perspective...legally I'll leave that one alone... The language in the email clearly states that the member was not clear of their financial obligations from 2016 over and above the amount that was covered by their financial aid package. In other words, it appears they were trying to skip out on what they still owed Crown from last year and hope that they didn't get caught. But they did. And getting caught meant that they forfeited what they'd been forgiven from 2016 in the way of financial aid. It would appear that IF they'd paid in full to Crown before trying to leave, that there'd be no problem with them going anywhere else they wanted. If Crown's financial aid package comes with a stipulation that acceptance of the package is finally contingent on also paying off all other monies due for participation, and that failure to complete payment in full before leaving for another drum corps would result in the loss of that financial aid, then that's darn smart on Crown's end, and darn not-so-smart on the part of the member who tried to skip out on what was owed. Again, adulting is hard. Edited February 4, 2017 by Slingerland 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Slingerland said: The language in the email clearly states that the member was not clear of their financial obligations from 2016 over and above the amount that was covered by their financial aid package. In other words, it appears they were trying to skip out on what they still owed Crown from last year and hope that they didn't get caught. But they did. And getting caught meant that they forfeited what they'd been forgiven from 2016 in the way of financial aid. It would appear that IF they'd paid in full to Crown before trying to leave, that there'd be no problem with them going anywhere else they wanted. If Crown's financial aid package comes with a stipulation that acceptance of the package is finally contingent on also paying off all other monies due for participation, and that failure to complete payment in full before leaving for another drum corps would result in the loss of that financial aid, then that's darn smart on Crown's end, and darn not-so-smart on the part of the member who tried to skip out on what was owed. Again, adulting is hard. I find this whole thing pretty interesting. Crown's public stance has always been "pay to play -- no exceptions". There were plenty of kids ready to take your spot if you couldn't afford it. Crown offered 12 month payment plans to help budget fees over an entire year. But no scholarships and no free rides. It was bad for the kids and bad for the corps. This position was repeated loudly over and over by staff and by admin. I wonder what exactly inspired the deviation? Was an instructor pleading with the admin to let these kids march "because we really need this kid" ? Anyway I think the use of "scholarship" is misleading (and yeah I know Crown uses it too -- they call their staff faculty as well -- whatever). Instead think of debt forgiveness. Member fee is $XXXX. Every marching member incurs this debt every season. Corps says to some members in need: We will forgive part of your debt if you continue to march here. But if you decide you want to march elsewhere we will no longer forgive that debt. The debt was always there. Not surprising at all. Edited February 4, 2017 by corpsband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 46 minutes ago, Slingerland said: The language in the email clearly states that the member was not clear of their financial obligations from 2016 over and above the amount that was covered by their financial aid package. In other words, it appears they were trying to skip out on what they still owed Crown from last year and hope that they didn't get caught. But they did. And getting caught meant that they forfeited what they'd been forgiven from 2016 in the way of financial aid. It would appear that IF they'd paid in full to Crown before trying to leave, that there'd be no problem with them going anywhere else they wanted. If Crown's financial aid package comes with a stipulation that acceptance of the package is finally contingent on also paying off all other monies due for participation, and that failure to complete payment in full before leaving for another drum corps would result in the loss of that financial aid, then that's darn smart on Crown's end, and darn not-so-smart on the part of the member who tried to skip out on what was owed. Again, adulting is hard. spin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 26 minutes ago, corpsband said: I find this whole thing pretty interesting. Crown's public stance has always been "pay to play -- no exceptions". There were plenty of kids ready to take your spot if you couldn't afford it. Crown offered 12 month payment plans to help budget fees over an entire year. But no scholarships and no free rides. It was bad for the kids and bad for the corps. This position was repeated loudly over and over by staff and by admin. I wonder what exactly inspired the deviation? Was an instructor pleading with the admin to let these kids march "because we really need this kid" ? Anyway I think the use of "scholarship" is misleading (and yeah I know Crown uses it too -- they call their staff faculty as well -- whatever). Instead think of debt forgiveness. Member fee is $XXXX. Every marching member incurs this debt every season. Corps says to some members in need: We will forgive part of your debt if you continue to march here. But if you decide you want to march elsewhere we will no longer forgive that debt. The debt was always there. Not surprising at all. spin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanInChicago Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 June 2017. Please arrive. Now. I want to see the Sight of Music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, Liahona said: spin How so? Were funds flowing to the corps on behalf of a student? Because THAT would constitute a scholarship. If a corps simply agrees "hey we're not going to ask you to pay all that you owe so long as you continue to march" that would simply be forgiving a debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Liahona said: spin "If I can pay you $20 next week, will you reduce the $25 I owe you by those five bucks?" "Sure, as long as you pay me the $20." The next week.... "I can't afford $20, here's $10." "Ok, but then the agreement to forgive the $5 no longer applies, and I want the whole $25. It was contingent on you holding up your end of the deal, but you didn't." == Not spin. Reality. Edited February 4, 2017 by Slingerland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Just now, Slingerland said: "If I give pay you $20 next week, will you reduce the $25 I owe you by those five bucks?" "Sure, as long as you pay me the $20." The next week.... "I can't afford $20, here's $10." "Ok, but then the agreement to forgive the $5 no longer applies, and I want the whole $25." == Not spin. Reality. Facts. They are a b####. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) This thread is probably causing the first Massilon show on June 24 to be a sell out for the Bluecoats. In 139 days, it will be the first time Crown and BAC take it to the same field . I guess for some, it could only be better if it were Hanover, PA 1980. PERFORMING CORPS Listed in alphabetical order. Bluecoats - Canton, OHBoston Crusaders - Boston, MAThe Cadets - Allentown, PACarolina Crown - Ft. Mill, SCTroopers - Casper, WY Edited February 4, 2017 by xandandl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Liahona said: spin 1 hour ago, Slingerland said: "If I can pay you $20 next week, will you reduce the $25 I owe you by those five bucks?" "Sure, as long as you pay me the $20." The next week.... "I can't afford $20, here's $10." "Ok, but then the agreement to forgive the $5 no longer applies, and I want the whole $25. It was contingent on you holding up your end of the deal, but you didn't." == Not spin. Reality. 1 hour ago, corpsband said: Facts. They are a b####. Now, you guys knock it off. Liahona is not a rookie newbie. His/her post count correctly expects respect. I want to know why Liahona considers it spin. The only way we learn is to keep the communication open, not shut it down. I want to hear thoughts different than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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