Eleran Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 minute ago, MikeN said: So our choreographer and fashion designer Artistic Director retires, and is replaced by a professional drill writer. Can the next guy (or gal) please have something to do with the actual music side of things? Mike This! I was writing a post myself about this but didn't finish. I mean, isn't MUSIC an art form? Isn't it, in fact, the most important art form to a band? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, MikeN said: Cesario was very vocal, funny enough, in pushing that each corps *should* have a distinctive voice and be rewarded for it. He pushed Madison's revival in 2010 very hard. So our choreographer and fashion designer Artistic Director retires, and is replaced by a professional drill writer. Can the next guy (or gal) please have something to do with the actual music side of things? Mike I don't think that the directive nature of that position is so exclusive and specific so as to matter. The general directives are about giving guidance on the philosophy of whole program design... not necessarily (although I am sure that the person will get involved with specifics if asked) about what uniforms should look like... what equipment should be tossed... what props should be made... and what music should be played, and how it should be arranged. I think it's more about saying... these kinds of approaches (thematically) seem pretentious to the audience, whereas these kinds (affecting all aspects of the program) seem to relate to people. Or, these risks seem to violate a corps identity... when people really like for groups to maintain and push forward the cliche' and "shtick" (you're welcome, garfield) that is associated with them. I don't think that this position has the means or capacity to say/do much more than provide general guidance (which is much more important than many may think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: I don't think that the directive nature of that position is so exclusive and specific so as to matter. The general directives are about giving guidance on the philosophy of whole program design... not necessarily (although I am sure that the person will get involved with specifics if asked) about what uniforms should look like... what equipment should be tossed... what props should be made... and what music should be played, and how it should be arranged. I think it's more about saying... these kinds of approaches (thematically) seem pretentious to the audience, whereas these kinds (affecting all aspects of the program) seem to relate to people. Or, these risks seem to violate a corps identity... when people really like for groups to maintain and push forward the cliche' and "shtick" (you're welcome, garfield) that is associated with them. I don't think that this position has the means or capacity to say/do much more than provide general guidance (which is much more important than many may think). Um, thank you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: I don't think that the directive nature of that position is so exclusive and specific so as to matter. The general directives are about giving guidance on the philosophy of whole program design... not necessarily (although I am sure that the person will get involved with specifics if asked) about what uniforms should look like... what equipment should be tossed... what props should be made... and what music should be played, and how it should be arranged. I think it's more about saying... these kinds of approaches (thematically) seem pretentious to the audience, whereas these kinds (affecting all aspects of the program) seem to relate to people. Or, these risks seem to violate a corps identity... when people really like for groups to maintain and push forward the cliche' and "shtick" (you're welcome, garfield) that is associated with them. I don't think that this position has the means or capacity to say/do much more than provide general guidance (which is much more important than many may think). So, in a way then, Cesario was an interpreter more than a direction-setter. He helped corps see that they were going down an audience path that was not being scored well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 4 hours ago, cixelsyd said: I would like to hear what "the DCI Artistic Director" role actually entails. DCI already has nearly 200 artistic directors among its 46 corps. I would like to hear how appointing one person as "the Artistic Director" does not work in opposition to the diversity of creative ideas we could otherwise have in this activity. And I think you could identify a sort of "institutional arrogance" among those 200 that pushes back against centralization. Maybe rightfully so but, as a famous director once laid down "I'll never be part of an activity that I can't control." Again, I wonder what Cesario brought that wouldn't have been determined by the corps anyway. Did BD do Italian music because of anything that Cesario suggested? (Not to imply that any one corps has demonstrated "institutional arrogance". Not my point.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, garfield said: So, in a way then, Cesario was an interpreter more than a direction-setter. He helped corps see that they were going down an audience path that was not being scored well. I think he was both... after all, "redirection" IS direction setting. And perhaps, to your second point, he was more of a positive influence over time than merely a proverbial "canary in the mine"... in relation to how corps were being received (not merely in scores). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Just now, garfield said: And I think you could identify a sort of "institutional arrogance" among those 200 that pushes back against centralization. Maybe rightfully so but, as a famous director once laid down "I'll never be part of an activity that I can't control." Again, I wonder what Cesario brought that wouldn't have been determined by the corps anyway. Did BD do Italian music because of anything that Cesario suggested? (Not to imply that any one corps has demonstrated "institutional arrogance". Not my point.) Not every organization was heading off the mother ship, of course. But I think that there is something to be said for having a person that is looking out for the artistic interests of the business and the experience of the venue audience. It's kind of like a theater manager... that deals with the booking and etiquette of the venue (maybe that's not the best analogy, but it's the one that I've got). When a corps director talks about "the show" they are talking about THEIR show. When DCI is talking about "the show" they are talking about 5-15 corps performing in succession. It could be argued that what you CAN get without a person providing this kind of feedback, is a field of participants that can get focused on the scores... and then you have a show where 2 corps are great to watch and 5 corps are dis-interesting (even in their excellence). Edited June 21, 2017 by cfirwin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 23 minutes ago, garfield said: And I think you could identify a sort of "institutional arrogance" among those 200 that pushes back against centralization. Maybe rightfully so but, as a famous director once laid down "I'll never be part of an activity that I can't control." Again, I wonder what Cesario brought that wouldn't have been determined by the corps anyway. Did BD do Italian music because of anything that Cesario suggested? (Not to imply that any one corps has demonstrated "institutional arrogance". Not my point.) Sure the individual corps artistic staff resist centralization and want to do their own thing. OTOH, I think everybody knows and more-or-less-respects Cesario, and they are not going to ignore the opinions that he brings to the table. Especially when he's also the guy leading changes in the adjudication system. Do you agree that the overall DCI product is stronger, and connecting better with the audience, since they appointed Cesario as AD? I definitely feel that it is better, and absent other evidence, I'd assume that the AD role is one of the reasons why. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedEye Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Say what you want about the man's oversized personality, oversized influence in uniforms and the inherent conflicts of his ties to uniform vendors, but he has always done excellent work and I think he made a positive impact the past several seasons. Not that long ago, there was a period of really dry shows, which were technically demanding, but starting to look and feel a lot the same. Audiences were beginning to drift. I don't know exactly what Cesario did, but my assumption has been that he has acted primarily as a sounding board, guide, and overall curator of an evening's entertainment. Most likely asking, "have you thought of this?" "why aren't your pursuing such and such approach?" "wouldn't it be more fun if you did abc?" etc. All that with an eye on how the combination of shows work together in a competition. Is there enough stylistic variety? Is there the right balance of in-your-face with esoteric? The corps had their own ideas, but he pushed them to make them unique and maximized. The past few seasons have been GREAT top to bottom, with more varied approaches and creativity, and audiences are increasing because of it. He truly deserves a good bit of credit for that. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Interesting to say the least. Why not just say thank you to a person ( agree with views or not ) for decades of service to our activity rather than debate what one contributed or not. Even the lunch lady, semi driver, person who lines the field, etc etc contributed in a major way, whether we agreed how they did their jobs or not. The guy retires and now there is more debate then there was a few days ago on his policies. I've always said we are one of the few activities that eat their own. Over the years I have been at odds with some icons in the activity but when they choose to move on you thank them for their service find something nice to say and move forward.This is all JMO and no need to debate. We all shape lives in our activity and most often do things within the activity the we believe is in the best interest of the activity. With that will always be opposition and those who do not agree but again i will say , after decades we thank those who dedicated to all of us. " There's always something good one can find , after decades with what another has done " AGAIN...jmo Edited June 21, 2017 by GUARDLING 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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