SCV and BD in top 2...really?!!

[BRASSO]

2 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

Top four, to most, are obvious at this stage. The only reason cavaliers are even in the discussion is their guard book and performance. They can't overcome the sheer power of Bluecoats, Crown, BD and SCV musically. 

Boston has been an amazing story. Perfectly designed season for them. If Cavaliers didn't have such a hugely challenging guard performance this year they would finish fourth. Brass and percussion are way above last year. 

To me. it is clear that SCV has the most advanced show in all areas. They should win the gold, imho.

  I think this would be my assessment at the moment too, MikeRapp.  I can't see any other Corps but BD/SCV where the 2 Corps are at the moment. The others immediately below these 2 Corps are not better, imo. So I believe the judges have it right at the moment. Still time remaining for the others, but its not SCV/ BD's fault that both are so good this season in both show design and performance.

[DCImonkey]

SCV has the most difficult drill and most appealing to my eyes.  Their brass is performing some tasty licks, perhaps not on the level of BD or Crown, but they are undeniably good.  Their percussion is off the charts good..... SCV has enough GE to make an obscure show concept like Ouroboros actually work and get people off their butts cheering for them.   I love the new look and believe they should be challenging for the win.   Oh that colorguard feature at the end of the show pops like very few other guard features do.    

I think you're a melody man, and you don't like the music...therefore it must not be good.   Oh well.    SCV for the Gold please

[henry7184]

8 minutes ago, DCImonkey said:

SCV has the most difficult drill and most appealing to my eyes.  Their brass is performing some tasty licks, perhaps not on the level of BD or Crown, but they are undeniably good.  Their percussion is off the charts good..... SCV has enough GE to make an obscure show concept like Ouroboros actually work and get people off their butts cheering for them.   I love the new look and believe they should be challenging for the win.   Oh that colorguard feature at the end of the show pops like very few other guard features do.    

I think you're a melody man, and you don't like the music...therefore it must not be good.   Oh well.    SCV for the Gold please

Couldn't agree more. It's such a fantastic show (SCV) with so much going on you see new things every time. I absolutely love it. 

[BDCorno]

1 hour ago, henry7184 said:

I love both shows, but:

1. I don't see BD being better received by the crowds than SCV. I'd say it's pretty even. Both shows are awesome this year, and deserve to be placing where they are.

2. Since BD is undefeated, I would necessarily say SCV is the "darlings" of DCI this year. That statement implies they don't deserve to be where they are - they absolutely do.

Both shows are great this year, and it's great to see them both battling it out. I hope SCV pulls it off in the end, but I would be surprised if they did. 

Henry, being a "darling" (not "darlings of DCI") does NOT imply they don't deserve to be where they are at, it simply says that there are many that are jumping on their bandwagon now that Coats and possibly Crown appear to be out of reach. They're the darlings of many fans, primarily the ABBD types. Wonderful show, which I enjoy thoroughly BTW. I was taking exception to the thought that SCV had a more advanced show in all ways. Not a slam on SCV, just looking for clarity. It is interesting that SCV opted for a more cerebral show this year, and BD went with a more accessible GE-oriented tome. Would be an interesting study if the groups switched shows and how people would receive them. Hmmmm...

At any rate, I have (and have always had) mad respect for SCV. Competed for years head to head with them, many friends inside and out of the organization. In typical DCP fashion, my comments got twisted a little bit. Same old same old here as usual. SMH. Hope this gives you a better understanding.

[MikeRapp]

2 hours ago, BDCorno said:

Cop out. Not a "BD fan" per se...I did march and teach in the organization, but also judged brass, visual and color guard for a few decades. Maybe if you'd like a private discussion, we could do that. I'm not in for trolling, nor do I prefer a trollish discussion (few and far between here). BD and SCV are clearly the two best groups this years, but also as much an "apples and oranges" situation as we saw last year with the Bluecoats/Crown/BD trilogy...all of which I liked for different reasons, and that composed their programs completely differently. Regarding our interchange, I'm just interested to know why you made the blanket statement that you did. I think it bears further investigation/discussion, especially if you've not seen the programs live, or at least looked very closely at recent high cam videos. Very different approaches from these two, and I think the scores at this point are pretty much accurate. Who will win? It's anyone's guess. DCI has a propensity for sentimentality, so they may put SCV up. If this is the case, I hope it's because they outperformed everyone and earned it. They're certainly the darlings this year, though from what I'm seeing, BD is better received by the crowds. It's reminding me a bit of 2014 and Bluecoats chasing Cadets all year, only to overcome them at finals. At any rate, want to have a discussion privately...no problem. Otherwise, I'll just have to blanket statement your blanket statement and say that you're wrong. A pretty sad way to deal with this, but it's PCP...whoops, I mean DCP. Have a good one.

P.S. - ask anyone that knows me, they'll tell you I'm reasonable and as fair as can be when evaluating programs.

 

I have seen both programs live, and have dissected both shows via video. Fwiw. I'm not a judge, never have been one, but also am hardly a novice about the activity.

I'm a fan of all of these corps, but not specifically SCV or BD. If anything I am a Bluecoats fan, having grown up in Ohio. In my view, these are the the best shows of this season, and should be our medalists. Many will disagree. And they will have perfectly valid reasons for saying so.

I don't share the sentimentality that old timers have for this BD show, so as a result I don't get, see or hear all of the semi-hidden Easter eggs in their show. If I did, I might accrue value to their design that others do. As a former BD marcher and judge, no doubt you see and appreciate these things, which is awesome. 

In general, i accrue much of the growth and expansion of drum corps over the last decade to Blue Devils. They showed everyone how to build a successful arts organization, how to build a successful creative process and design paradigm, and how to execute at all levels. No doubt they forced DCI into the current age of dramatic performance techniques. It's been great for the expansion of drum corps into guard, and into show concepts as an art form in and of itself.

That said, I -- like many, many others -- believe Blue Devils get high scores for less difficult things. You can tell me how hard it is to do jazz running, scatter drills and individualized play acting, but I don't think these things are harder than what SCV is putting on the field this year. I saw an overhead sped up video of this SCV show on Flo this weekend, and it is absolutely staggering how nonstop their drill is, and how creative it is on a mass scale.

It all comes down to what DCI values most. For my money, I love the dramatic emphases BD has brought to drum corps. But I put mo e value on the full field complexity that SCV and Bluecoats are bringing to this season. I don't want either to go away. It's not either or, it's both and. But someone has to win, and for me, the winner is Vanguard.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by MikeRapp

[Jim Schehr]

There are some really wonderful performances this season from so many corps especially within the current top seven corps. I ask many fans of drum corps - who do you like, and there seems to be a consensus of one corps that always makes their top three list - Bluecoats. Like those who adjudicate, it's still comes down to personal opinions regardless of any criteria.

I ask specifically - what is it you like about Bluecoats? Many different responses, here are a few; creative, innovated, fantastic, fosse choreography style, uniforms, the cool music, high energy, enthusiasm, brilliant, spectacular and last but not least - it looks like the kids are having a blast out there. Really

It struck a cord with me that none described their other two corps in as many different ways. What score matters when fans love what you do so much they don't care where someone thinks you should place? Yeah there can only be one winner, but the real winner is that corps you enjoy the most. The corps that gets you to the edge of your seat, or makes you seat dance, bob your head to the beat, swaying back and forth feeling, and then without you even knowing it pulls you up to a standing ovation. Awe that's what these members live for.

Someone will win the Gold, Silver and Bronze and I don't know who, but I wouldn't trade the echoing of BLOO, BLOO - and standing O's for anything - what an experience that must feel like.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Jim Schehr

[MikeRapp]

14 minutes ago, Jim Schehr said:

There are some really wonderful performances this season from so many corps especially within the current top seven corps. I ask many fans of drum corps - who do you like, and there seems to be a consensus of one corps that always makes their top three list - Bluecoats. Like those who adjudicate, it's still comes down to personal opinions regardless of any criteria.

I ask specifically - what is it you like about Bluecoats? Many different responses, here are a few; creative, innovated, fantastic, fosse choreography style, uniforms, the cool music, high energy, enthusiasm, brilliant, spectacular and last but not least - it looks like the kids are having a blast out there. Really

It struck a cord with me that none described their other two corps in as many different ways. What score matters when fans love what you do so much they don't care where someone thinks you should place? Yeah there can only be one winner, but the real winner is that corps you enjoy the most. The corps that gets you to the edge of your seat, or makes you seat dance, bob your head to the beat, swaying back and forth feeling, and then without you even knowing it pulls you up to a standing ovation. Awe that's what these members live for.

Someone will win the Gold, Silver and Bronze and I don't know who, but I wouldn't trade the echoing of BLOO, BLOO - and standing O's for anything - what an experience that must feel like.

I tend to think that, if Jagged Line had come last year, and Down Side Up this year, Bluecoats would have won the gold last year and the bronze this year. Judges now have sort of acclimated to the throng of Bluecoats fanboys. They are looking at more traditional drum corps issues for their ultimate final marks.

My personal opinion is that DCI needs innovation to survive and grow. Bluecoats clearly represents the bleeding edge of drum corps innovation, just as Blue Devils did a decade or so ago, and Cadets before them. Many will not like them. They seem fine with that. Just as BD and Cadets were fine with the same sentiments. And still are.

All things are not equal in any subjective activity. But if they are equal, I believe we should reward the innovator who wows the crowd. I am on the edge of my seat every time BD, CC and SCV perform, but I pay to see Bluecoats because they are daring to go where few if any have gone before, with absolute commitment to musical perfection.

Regardless, I recognize that SCV is going wire to wire with a show that involves more elements to master. Their props are so unique and challenging to execute and they do it so innovatively. Their book may not be more difficult than Bluecoats or BD, but to my ear it is more varied and requires more levels of perfectionism. It's really an amazing show in every respect.

Edited July 31, 2017 by MikeRapp

[snare_guy_83]

From what I saw live last night, Vanguard should be in 1st place. Just stunning across the board.

Not that BD isn't stellar as well, but if they played on the move as much as SCV, they'd be my pick for 1st.

That's what it comes down to for me. Both are great visually and musically. One corps does both at the same time. 

[snare_guy_83]

1 minute ago, MikeRapp said:

I tend to think that, if Jagged Line had come last year, and Down Side Up this year, Bluecoats would have won the gold last year and the bronze this year. Judges now have sort of acclimated to the throng of Bluecoats fanboys. They are looking at more traditional drum corps issues for their ultimate final marks.

My personal opinion is that DCI needs innovation to survive and grow. Bluecoats clearly represents the bleeding edge of drum corps innovation, just as Blue Devils did a decade or so ago, and Cadets before them. Many will not like them. They seem fine with that. Just as BD and Cadets were fine with the same sentiments. And still are.

All things are no equal in any subjective activity. But if they are equal, I believe we should reward the innovator who wows the crowd. I am on the edge of my seat every time BD, CC and SCV perform, but I pay to see Bluecoats because they are daring to go where few if any have gone before, with absolute commitment to musical perfection.

[Cappybara]

3 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

No thanks, been there done that. I can back them up fine, but I've learned my lesson many years ago discussing this topic with BD fans!

I'm assuming the lesson is "I don't agree with the valid points BD fans come up with"

Edited July 31, 2017 by Cappybara