tedrick Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 We've put up with the St. Louis Cardinals in the National League since 1892 -- guess we can cope with one elite dominant organization in drum corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 25 minutes ago, Spartans87 said: Nothing to see here folks. OP puts this out as his first post. Time to move on.... If you feel the need to be dismissive of an OP because it is his first post.... then perhaps you should move on. Yes this topic has come up many times before, but it is still a relevant topic of discussion. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: you can cut BDs budget down to anyones and they will still succeed. Not even a question. AS far as geographic restrictions. If we did that today , there would be even less corps. If any I agree with you on geographic restrictions. On the budgeting - it depends how you define succeed. Would they still be around? Probably. So that it itself could mean they are succeeding. Would they dominate the activity from a competitive standpoint? Absolutley not. Budgets fuel everything, and when that fuel is low, everything starts to suffer. Big budgets mean great staff, great equipment, great uniforms, great props, great food, great travel vehichles, and great recruiting. Take funding away and that all suffers. When all that suffers, placement suffers. Edited August 3, 2018 by queenanne_1536 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: I agree with you on geographic restrictions. On the budgeting - it depends how you define succeed. Would they still be around? Probably. So that it itself could mean they are succeeding. Would they dominate the activity from a competitive standpoint? Absolutley not. Budgets fuel everything, and when that fuel is low, everything starts to suffer. Big budgets mean great staff, great equipment, great uniforms, great props, great food, great travel vehichles, and great recruiting. Take funding away and that all suffers. When all that suffers, placement suffers. Yes, budgets do fuel success BUT if you want to put everyone in the same box financially, which it's never been that way. I believe a corps like BD would thrive. It's also about knowing what mistakes NOT to make. If you also take away those with budgets what's left. Think about that. So I think somewhat we agree. I think..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: Yes, budgets do fuel success BUT if you want to put everyone in the same box financially, which it's never been that way. I believe a corps like BD would thrive. It's also about knowing what mistakes NOT to make. If you also take away those with budgets what's left. Think about that. So I think somewhat we agree. I think..lol Ha, I'm not sure if we agree :) I guess it depends on the level of budget you have. If BD had Madison's budget, I absolutely believe we would see quite a rapid decline in placement, due to loss of staff alone. Loss of staff leads to loss of talent and so on and so forth. No the level has never been the same, and I doubt it will ever be. Back when I marched in the mid- to late-80s most people in my corps were local, or at least a state or two away. Not so these days. Within the top talent there are a lot of musicians and dancers that want to work with the best instructional staff. Take that staff away and everything would suffer severely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 minute ago, queenanne_1536 said: Ha, I'm not sure if we agree :) I guess it depends on the level of budget you have. If BD had Madison's budget, I absolutely believe we would see quite a rapid decline in placement, due to loss of staff alone. Loss of staff leads to loss of talent and so on and so forth. No the level has never been the same, and I doubt it will ever be. Back when I marched in the mid- to late-80s most people in my corps were local, or at least a state or two away. Not so these days. Within the top talent there are a lot of musicians and dancers that want to work with the best instructional staff. Take that staff away and everything would suffer severely. 3 Im not sure either,,,haha BUT I do think there will also be those who will thrive above others. Another part of the equation is the best, staff etc etc want to be around others who are the best. How many times have we seen staff venturing off to another project with a lot less money or even sometimes more money for them at least and the success needle barely moved. Often ( like BD ) it's about the combination of those around you that also makes a success. There are or have been great staff that wouldn't touch a corps with a ten-foot pole, which money or not people stay clear of. Some worked through that to success some have not yet. So this has everything to do with mindset and not money. I think we do kida agree..lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkrepps Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 It doesn't bother me even though I'm not a West coast fanboy. I still enjoy It just the same. It does make an interesting psychological dynamic though. When I went to the last 2 open class championships, BDB and VC get almost dismissed as irrelevant to the competition, at least at present. I saw Legends fans dancing around to chants of "Third is first! Third is first!". So the top two are treated like a separate sort of exhibition class. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake33 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 The initial advantage in 70s was style. Judging changed to prefer a flashier show and there was less credit given to percision. Some corps adapted, others didn't and the bias became greater over time because of money. Winners have more access to funding in various directions. So, you might see an exceptional talent emerge in the hinterlands but eventually better monitary offers lure them away and the advantage swings back west. The real competition right now is at 4th place maybe 3rd. Corps that make it to that level did something exceptional. BD on the other hand just needs to look a lot like BD to win. Everyone else has to look better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluzes Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 hour ago, GUARDLING said: you can cut BDs budget down to anyones and they will still succeed. Not even a question. AS far as geographic restrictions. If we did that today , there would be even less corps. If any As if winning really means something other than to those that participated. Fickle fans come & go, me personally who wins dci is right up there with who wins Family Feud. In both cases the losers received the same amount of exposure, had just as much fun and learned from the experience. Could BD win with one hand behind it's back is an unknown? Can't blame them for being successful using bingo as a revenue source while others can't, as an example. That's the difference between the NFL that revenue shares and MLB that doesn't. In the NFL anyone can be champs. In the MLB, that is more difficult the Yanks are a example of that. Here is where it breaks down. There are 32 MLB teams and it took the KC Royals 30 years to win the series again. Then how many times should Pioneer have won in that scenario twice maybe, didn't happen. The MMs are not courted and showed with anything, they are not drafted like baseball. Just the opposite they are the ones taking a bath here with audition fees and all them expenses. If one were to blame anybody for BDs success it's the MM's they have attracted. They identified themselves with BD's image, felt a comfort level in past shows, that next year will be great, that's where they wanted to be. I would say these MMs spent their money wisely and are the number one reason for BD's success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 The best corps have the best, most consistent teaching. IMHO that should be a top priority for any corps that wants to move up the food chain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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