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Crossmen Press Release - Natalie Steele replacing Fred Morrison

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26 minutes ago, Eleran said:

No - that's a press release after the fact  The idea and the urging came from DCI.  

Please explain how it would have preserved funds, since the corps would have been on the road the same number of days, staying overnight at schools the same number of nights, consuming the same amount of food, and traveling only a marginally increased number of miles (for which the total increase in gas costs would have amounted to less than one marching members' tuition - I did the calculations at the time)?   Instead, they had to settle for whatever  last-minute accommodations they could get, often at such a distance from the show venues that any mileage savings were lost. 

its cheaper to be in the midwest and east coast than California. just think of the cost to get everything and everyone out there. staying closer to home, they were able to network and leverage connections to have lower costs and drive far fewer miles

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10 minutes ago, Eleran said:

No - that's a press release after the fact  The idea and the urging came from DCI.  

So you want me to believe they lied in the press release?  And if so, why?

Quote

Please explain how it would have preserved funds, since the corps would have been on the road the same number of days, staying overnight at schools the same number of nights, consuming the same amount of food, and traveling only a marginally increased number of miles (for which the total increase in gas costs would have amounted to less than one marching members' tuition - I did the calculations at the time)?   Instead, they had to settle for whatever  last-minute accommodations they could get, often at such a distance from the show venues that any mileage savings were lost. 

Why ask me?  Doug Rutherford is the one who claimed that would conserve funds.  Ask him.

But since you asked here instead, I can speculate.

My sense is that the western tour would have put the corps "on the road" longer, traveling more miles, and with fewer paydays.  If western tours were cheaper, everyone would be doing them... but instead, DCI has to provide incentive pay to get anyone to take that tour to add variety to western show lineups.  I doubt that the incentive pay is enough to cover the additional cost - again, if it was, more corps would be taking that deal.

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32 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

 

My sense is that the western tour would have put the corps "on the road" longer, traveling more miles, and with fewer paydays. 

They had planned to leave Spring Training the exact same day, or possibly one day earlier - I don't recall which.

As I said above, the increase in miles was marginal: multiple shows in California were going to be out of the same housing venues (they would have been nearly 10 days within just California), and heading up and down the East coast from Boston to Florida, eats the miles up just as bad as heading West and coming back in time for the mid-west swing.

They had the exact same number of shows planned on the western spur prior to El Dorado as they actually played in on the Eastern spur before El Dorado, so it would have been the same number of paydays. 

GH even made it clear back during the Spring of 2017 that DCI had put significant pressure on him not to do a West Coast tour in 2017, as he had planned to do.  DCI was desperate to make their failing Florida experiment succeed, and they wanted as strong a billing as they could get.  Just look at this year's schedule - they're down to one show in Florida, instead of three, and only have on the schedule Boston, Carolina, Heat Wave, Jersey Surf and Music City.

Well, this argument has run its course.  Back to Crossmen.

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Edited by Eleran
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1 hour ago, Eleran said:

They had planned to leave Spring Training the exact same day, or possibly one day earlier - I don't recall which.

As I said above, the increase in miles was marginal: multiple shows in California were going to be out of the same housing venues (they would have been nearly 10 days within just California), and heading up and down the East coast from Boston to Florida, eats the miles up just as bad as heading West and coming back in time for the mid-west swing.

They had the exact same number of shows planned on the western spur prior to El Dorado as they actually played in on the Eastern spur before El Dorado, so it would have been the same number of paydays. 

GH even made it clear back during the Spring of 2017 that DCI had put significant pressure on him not to do a West Coast tour in 2017, as he had planned to do.  DCI was desperate to make their failing Florida experiment succeed, and they wanted as strong a billing as they could get.  Just look at this year's schedule - they're down to one show in Florida, instead of three, and only have on the schedule Boston, Carolina, Heat Wave, Jersey Surf and Music City.

So your contention is that either DCI lied, or coerced Doug Rutherford to lie, in a DCI.org press release concerning the reason for the change in 2018 Cadets tour?

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I’m still wrapping my brain around going up and down east coast is same as going to west coast in mileage. Would think east coast shows are closer together so lest mileage on travel days.

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2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

its cheaper to be in the midwest and east coast than California. just think of the cost to get everything and everyone out there. staying closer to home, they were able to network and leverage connections to have lower costs and drive far fewer miles

3-4 Bucks a gallon for Diesel depending on where....average 6 MPG, savings of how many thousands of miles, do the math, it's got to be some real money. Got to dig out, don't have time.

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58 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

I’m still wrapping my brain around going up and down east coast is same as going to west coast in mileage. Would think east coast shows are closer together so lest mileage on travel days.

It's only the first leg of the drive that's a killer (admittedly - that's a long killer).  But once you reach Clovis, from that point on through El Dorado, KS, the average distance between venues was 293 miles.  The average through El Dorado on the Eastern leg was 306 miles.   So the appearance of being daunting looking at a map isn't the same thing as actually being daunting.   And by the way, the average distance between venues from El Dorado to Indianapolis, the second half of tour, is 312 miles.

As for the total tour mileage, West Coast option vs. East Coast option, you're talking 11094 vs 8962, or a 2132 mile difference (all in that first leg from Spring Training out to Clovis, CA).   EIA.Gov shows diesel rates in 2018 ranging from $2.6-$3.4/gallon.  While I would presume they aren't using the most expensive stuff, I think $3/gallon is probably a safe estimate.    BigW's mileage estimate of 6 is probably about right for the buses and 18 wheel trailers, though probably way too low for the box trucks.  Using it anyway, that's $1,066 extra for each vehicle with the Western Option.   If we say 4 buses and 3 trucks, that's $7,462.  In 2018 they increased member totals from 150 to 154.  Those 4 extra people chipped in an at least an additional $15,000.   [Note: the above assumes the corps pays for gas - I'm not certain that their contracts for buses/trucks work that way, and may instead be a "per mile" price.  If so, there's no way of knowing the actual cost, though calculating the gas numbers is probably a good method for estimating.]

So they cancelled the western tour to save $7,500?   Which they'd already made back up twice over with the extra four members?  And I'm being generous not factoring in the extra miles they had to travel from housing to venue because they got sent out to the boondocks for housing during that first half of tour, because they were scrambling late to secure anything they could get.  Not to mention possible financial losses over any deposits they may have made with respect to anything for the cancelled western tour (not saying I know whether that's the case, but it's certainly a possibility - even just air fares for staff members meeting the corps out there that might have already been purchased).

So without actual hard facts and details from the corps about their costs, I'm not buying that the Western tour was cancelled to save $7,500.

Edited by Eleran
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Doug made it clear the miles (and the additional cost incurred) was one of the reasons they passed on the WC tour. They had enough fires to deal with without sending the corps out west. I know this was disappointing to many folks on the west coast. It was the right decision to help stabilize the organization.

Edited by MusicManNJ
corrected a name spelling
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Thanks for the time involved typing the mileage break down. Family business was in autos and father involved with heavy equipment. So transportation always interests me.

Plus just got my license when gas  tripled in the 70s and saw first hand how that hurt local corps

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30 minutes ago, MusicManNJ said:

Doig made it clear the miles (and the additional cost incurred) was one of the reasons they passed on the WC tour. They had enough fires to deal with without sending the corps out west. I know this was disappointing to many folks on the west coast. It was the right decision to help stabilize the organization.

again, don't forget...having the Cadets at YEA shows here adds butts to the seats, and the ties the Cadets have in the region and along the east especially could have helped save them a lot of money in ways going out west would not have. 

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