When is it too much?

[BozzlyB]

14 hours ago, tedrick said:

In La Crosse, apparently after about 5 tons is enough --

 

https://www.twincities.com/2019/07/05/naked-wisconsin-man-arrested-says-he-was-on-tons-and-tons-and-tons-and-tons-and-tons-of-acid/

What him? That's just the Mayor, never mind him. 

 

[SFZFAN]

It was too much 15 years ago and just getting worse.

[mort2885]

It’s funny how “when is it too much” has been a question since the beginning of DCI, but the “it” changes about every five years or so. And yet, DCI magically thrives. 

[chris ncsu]

9 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

Those were very heavy.  Welded angle iron frames.  I don’t know how those girls moved them. I tried to move one at a rehearsal site...um no. 

Yeah. Though my intention was “and for what, for what effect?!”  Sigh. Maybe the best musical ensemble Cadets have ever fielded, only to be dragged down as usual by lackluster visual design and performance. 

[Standing O]

I too have been thinking about this topic a lot .  I fully understand the move to larger unit size based on full seats in buses.  But when will DCI and designers realize they are out pricing their clientele.  Now each unit has another semi just for props.  Rising volatile fuel costs that get rolled down to the member fees.  Flying staff in and out that don't stay with corps all season.    New pajamas every year for uniforms.  For me the more students involved in the activity should always be the in the forefront.  How may times have you heard someone say  that can't march because they can't afford it and its getting worse.  

Love the activity--sooner or later the cost will out pace what students, parents, fans, can pay.  Not willing to pay, those of us who have experienced it would pay, but you have to put bread on the table first and foremost.

[garfield]

3 hours ago, Standing O said:

I too have been thinking about this topic a lot .  I fully understand the move to larger unit size based on full seats in buses.  But when will DCI and designers realize they are out pricing their clientele.  Now each unit has another semi just for props.  Rising volatile fuel costs that get rolled down to the member fees.  Flying staff in and out that don't stay with corps all season.    New pajamas every year for uniforms.  For me the more students involved in the activity should always be the in the forefront.  How may times have you heard someone say  that can't march because they can't afford it and its getting worse.  

Love the activity--sooner or later the cost will out pace what students, parents, fans, can pay.  Not willing to pay, those of us who have experienced it would pay, but you have to put bread on the table first and foremost.

I really appreciate the sentiment, and nobody likes to deal with increasing costs, but the dynamics disfavor your argument.  Currently, several corps' worth of excellent performers go home and don't march because they didn't make their dream corps each year.  With that kind of demand, it's obvious that many more kids are willing to pay the price to march than there are slots available.

One of the specific reasons why marching costs continue to increase is because of a dramatic decline in supply of marching options for all marchers.  

I, personally, happen to think the experience value is WAYYYYY underpriced when compared with similar summer experiences for young adults and I wouldn't begin to question it's competitive valuation until fees rise 40% or more.  But, regardless, competitive options for kids to march increases activity revenue.  Want more revenue?  Create more corps.

The activity will NEVER solve its financial challenges by limiting the creativity of those who design it.  There may be reasons to limit design creativity by, say, limiting props but significant financial impacts is not one of them from my perspective.

Edited July 7, 2019 by garfield

[garfield]

On 7/6/2019 at 4:19 PM, Newseditor44 said:

It’s obvious that trends have been moving towards more props and bigger productions. But does this create an uneven playing field for corps that don’t have the finances to compete at that level, and is this the cause of increasing costs to the kids and fans? Should there be a limit placed on the amount of props that can be used in the field, and do you think that corps like the Bluecoats use them to their advantage? How does the sport begin to regulate, or do they at all?

 

Discuss.

I notice that your basic premise is a financial one, not a creative one.

I would agree in the notion of "too much" if there were a definable and OBJECTIVE impact on judging outcomes.  Are big-prop or buncha-props corps judged better or higher because of those props' ability to meet sheet requirements?  Then yes, Houston, we have a problem.

Financially?  Nope, the argument doesn't fly.  Intrusion by overlords doesn't solve those issues.  Grow the activity and create more revenue.  You know - the HARD work.

 

[MikeRapp]

On 7/6/2019 at 4:49 PM, kkrepps said:

When the field looks like a giant version of the game "Mousetrap".

Then, it will be too much. Maybe. 

It wasn’t too much, but rather ill-conceived.

[crest99]

13 minutes ago, garfield said:

I really appreciate the sentiment, and nobody likes to deal with increasing costs, but the dynamics disfavor your argument.  Currently, several corps' worth of excellent performers go home and don't march because they didn't make their dream corps this year.  With that kind of demand, it's obvious that many more kids are willing to pay the price to march than there are slots available.

One of the specific reasons why marching costs continue to increase is because of a dramatic decline in supply of marching options for all marchers.  

I, personally, happen to think the experience value is WAYYYYY underpriced when compared with similar summer experiences for young adults and I wouldn't begin to question it's competitive valuation until fees rise 40% or more.  But, regardless, competitive options for kids to march increases activity revenue.  Want more revenue?  Create more corps.

The activity will NEVER solve its financial challenges by limiting the creativity of those who design it.  There may be reasons to limit design creativity by, say, limiting props but significant financial impacts is not one of them from my perspective.

Thanks for your super thoughtful posts.  

I do wonder about the relationship between the production costs of the field show (props, ever-changing uniforms, etc.) and membership fees.  I'd love to see some data on how much expenditures on the former have risen in the past decade or so, and how that compares with rising fees.  

Not especially on topic, but I'm also curious about your valuation of corps membership costs.  What summer experiences did you have in mind when you argued that drum corps is underpriced?  

[DFA1970]

Depends on how it’s used and how effortless it moves around. BD in 2010 with those mirrors was brilliant imo. The performers moved them around like feathers. But the effect they brought to the field was amazing.