MidWAmericanArts Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Just now, ftwdrummer said: Or the judges and fans have different definitions of "engagement." Would like to clarify that judge and the average fan have different definitions of engagement. Bring a WGI fan or dancer to DCI, their definitions would probably be much closer to the judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 12 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said: Yeah, I was with you until this section. They don't have more variety. They just check the effect moment boxes, and then design around those. It's obviously a valid strategy given the way the judges are interpreting the sheets, but when it's the same basic structure used since 2007, it gets old real quick. BD executes very well, and they check the boxes for the judges, but it's not compelling for any other reason than it's being performed well. At least half of the BD wins in the last 20 years probably could/should have gone to a more engaging show, but that's not the way the judges choose to interpret the sheets. This is why there is such a divergence between what the fans appreciate, and what the judges appreciate. It's not because of jealousy, just a different value system and hierarchy of design/engagement vs. execution. Glad you’re there on the design team and can explain their thought process. Scott Chandler is I’m sure thrilled to have you explain their rationale and how they come out on top pretty consistently. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 30 minutes ago, Ediker said: I’m not blind or deaf Do you at least play a mean pinball? ok, I’m sorry, that was just dumb. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) . Edited September 1, 2022 by scheherazadesghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, Whiskey said: Glad you’re there on the design team and can explain their thought process. Scott Chandler is I’m sure thrilled to have you explain their rationale and how they come out on top pretty consistently. Appreciate the snippy attitude, but this isn't exactly a well hidden secret. The bay area design/instructional community is incredibly insular and all staff/designers tend to work for many different programs throughout the year, so that design strategy is filtered through all the programs in the area. Besides that, the BD design process is pretty clear to anyone who is paying attention. They don't hide the fact that they write to the sheets at the expense of innovation or audience engagement. Maybe less energy being snippy, and more towards just listening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 minute ago, scheherazadesghost said: I'm not sure you mean to use such loaded language. No one here is talking about enabling hecklers. My language was nothing close to that. I was teasing apart hecklers from people with legit reasons for leaving whenever they want for reasons that are no one's business. Because before I got on my soapbox those people were being lumped together. We aren't the same and I don't appreciate the insinuation that we are. Well put. I can't sit still for 12 shows, especially if I don't particularly like the shows (nothing against the members, but usually there are only a handful of shows that you might like in an evening of performances). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) . Edited September 1, 2022 by scheherazadesghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said: I'm not sure you mean to use such loaded language. No one here is talking about enabling hecklers. My language was nothing close to that. I was teasing apart hecklers from people with legit reasons for leaving whenever they want for reasons that are no one's business. Because before I got on my soapbox those people were being lumped together. We aren't the same and I don't appreciate the insinuation that we are. I am talking about general rude audience behavior, not necessary just hecklers or leaving in the middle of performances. But I also think we both have very different ideas of what an appropriate audience behavior looks like and that’s okay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said: The other thing about critiquing BD is that while alum and fans may jump to their defense, BD doesn't jump to their own defense and never will. And they don't need to. Their rings and smiles on MMs faces are enough. As it should be! So why the defensiveness? If the organization doesn't care about feedback (or shouldn't care,) why do others jump to defend them so directly? The scores affirms their dominance every year. I don't know how else to say great job about that. Why not admit happily that they won the game AND welcome respectful critique? I promise the MMs are welcoming feedback so they can do better, why not others? Right, there is nothing wrong with critique. I obviously have lots to say about the Vanguard's design decisions as well, so it's not exclusively pointed towards BD. I just grew up in the bay area, and taught/designed for dozens of programs in the area over a long period so I know the ins and outs of those two programs very well. That being said I'm a professional composer/educator so I'm used to critiquing, and being critiqued. It's part of the creative process, but I recognize not everyone has the stomach for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) . Edited September 1, 2022 by scheherazadesghost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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