Madison Scouts 2023

[Gantang]

15 hours ago, BlueStainGlass said:

Do alums put the corps in their will?  Never heard it before but maybe some rich person has done it for any corps recently to go under.

Yes, they do. Define "rich"? People at all wealth levels can leave corps money. 

[BlueStainGlass]

2 hours ago, Gantang said:

Yes, they do. Define "rich"? People at all wealth levels can leave corps money. 

Im talking like enough to revive a corps like Glassmen or save SCV.

[HockeyDad]

20 hours ago, madisonsmiley said:

By their actions, the board doesn't care about alumni donations. The board doesn't receive reports on donor retention and doesn't ask for them. Chris provides the board with a report that includes total dollars received from donations. When a four, five, or six figure donor stops giving or a donor takes the corps out of their will, the board doesn't know and doesn't care. There's no transparency or accountability. 

To stifle dissent, the board recently changed the bylaws so a donor must give $500 or volunteer 50 hours to have a vote for directors. Shortly after that they converted to what's called a self-perpetuating board: the board elects or appoints new directors. When you could vote if you were a donor, Chris Komnick approved the volunteer hours. Also, when you could vote if you donated, they instituted a policy to reject donations from any person or organization whose values do not align with the corps, which they've done to alumni that voiced dissent with management without any due process. It allowed Chris to say, "I don't like you. Keep your money. You can't vote."

Their board meetings are secret. No one can attend unless approved by, if I recall, the chair. For example, Carolina Crown's board meetings are open. 

Wow. That’s pathetic. 

[kdaddy]

20 hours ago, madisonsmiley said:

By their actions, the board doesn't care about alumni donations. The board doesn't receive reports on donor retention and doesn't ask for them. Chris provides the board with a report that includes total dollars received from donations. When a four, five, or six figure donor stops giving or a donor takes the corps out of their will, the board doesn't know and doesn't care. There's no transparency or accountability. 

To stifle dissent, the board recently changed the bylaws so a donor must give $500 or volunteer 50 hours to have a vote for directors. Shortly after that they converted to what's called a self-perpetuating board: the board elects or appoints new directors. When you could vote if you were a donor, Chris Komnick approved the volunteer hours. Also, when you could vote if you donated, they instituted a policy to reject donations from any person or organization whose values do not align with the corps, which they've done to alumni that voiced dissent with management without any due process. It allowed Chris to say, "I don't like you. Keep your money. You can't vote."

Their board meetings are secret. No one can attend unless approved by, if I recall, the chair. For example, Carolina Crown's board meetings are open. 

Can anyone corroborate any of this? And also compare with other drum corps? 

(e.g., as a $500+ donor to Phantom Regiment and Blue Stars, I've never been asked to vote for anything nor should I be)

[Gantang]

2 hours ago, BlueStainGlass said:

Im talking like enough to revive a corps like Glassmen or save SCV.

Do you have an estimated dollar amount? I heard it costs around $1 million per year to fund a DCI World Class corps. A donation of that amount would have to be made by someone with a moderately sized estate of around $5 million UNLESS he or she has no heirs! Probably more likely is a life insurance policy of $250,000 - $500,000, with the corps being the primary beneficiary.

I don't know how deep the G-men and SCV holes are, but to eliminate debt and fund the first year back in business would could someone around $3 million for SCV based on numbers I've seen here on DCP.  That would require an estate of nearly $10 million UNLESS he or she has no heirs! Most likely, the money would come from investment instruments. 

If a corps has someone THAT loyal and dedicated to them, they probably already know that money will be coming upon his or her death. 

[TenHut]

2 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

Wow. That’s pathetic. 

There is no defense for this failed administration. This regime is pathetic. Closed board meetings and sensorship of those with different opinions? Great way to lose alumni support.

Edited July 10, 2023 by TenHut

[dcifanforlife]

4 hours ago, kdaddy said:

Can anyone corroborate any of this? And also compare with other drum corps? 

(e.g., as a $500+ donor to Phantom Regiment and Blue Stars, I've never been asked to vote for anything nor should I be)

In December 2022 I left a corps board that I had served on for sixteen years. I have called in and attended board meetings for several corps during that time.  Getting people to attend  zoom board meetings and a annual general meeting via zoom is difficult.  Madison;s requirement that a person  must have donated $ 500 or volunteered 50 hours to  vote at the annual general meeting is unusual but better than what  many corps are doing.  No notice of board meetings and no  notice of annual general meeting.  If you are a 501c you  are required to hold a Annual  General Meeting and you must make it easy for people to attend. Certain information must be shared with those in attendance.    My issue with the Scouts is the board not paying Chris  his full salary each year.  Deferred compensation is a recipe for a disaster to come.

If you are an Alum with a large estate get your  affairs in order. Corps want you live as long as possible but too many are leaving us without there wishes known. I am in a multi year plan to give to corps the majority of my estate to corps before I die.

[C.Holland]

4 hours ago, TenHut said:

There is no defense for this failed administration. This regime is pathetic. Closed board meetings and sensorship of those with different opinions? Great way to lose alumni support.

meeting invites are sent to donors, and in advance so you can plan to attend if you want to.  both in person and over zoom are options.  

[madisonsmiley]

27 minutes ago, C.Holland said:

meeting invites are sent to donors, and in advance so you can plan to attend if you want to.  both in person and over zoom are options.  

Yes, to the annual meeting. Not to board meetings. 

[Vuitton]

I am going to say what I have to say in a calm, honest, and matter of fact way. I’m just stating this because the intent and emotions behind written word are often misconstrued, and I don’t want this to be wrongly seen as a rant. It is just the truth. My truth. Sorry this is so long, but I have a lot to say.

This has been a very interesting (and sometimes upsetting) thread. As an alumnus of Madison (Jr. Scouts mid-80s, Scouts late-80s/early-90s), I have a lot to say here. I have not witnessed every interaction between every alumni member and this administration, nor am I privy to anything that’s gone on inside the organization since probably 2019, other than stories I have heard. I can, therefore, only share my experience, my recollections, and information that was shared with me by people I believe to be honest and trustworthy. 

I hate airing dirty laundry, but I can’t remain silent while my brothers and I are blamed for the demise of the organization we love. I’m honestly offended. I can’t believe there are people here blaming the alumni for staffing issues. When people leave any organization, it’s due to how they were treated while they were there, a better opportunity arises, or they have issues with their pay. When one chooses not to join an organization, it’s usually based on bad word of mouth about what it’s like to work there. I have heard more than enough stories about the toxic work environment at Madison.

Here's how it all fell apart between the alumni and the administration.

After the conclusion of the 2015, everyone involved with this corps was extremely excited. 2015 was Mason's doing, not Chris'. 2015 was the result of the pieces Mason put together while he was there coming to fruition. Anyway, not only was 78^thand Madison a very entertaining show, but it was very well designed and modern for its time, and it resulted in Madison’s best competitive season since 2005. The corps beat the Cavaliers for the first time since 1997 (at finals) and finished the year in 8^th place, a stone’s throw from 7^th place (Regiment, our former rivals). The rivalry between these three corps had been reignited, or so it seemed.   

There was a tremendous amount of excitement heading into the 2016 season, and the relationship between the alumni and administration seemed strong. Chris was posting videos from rehearsals and camps of Judas during the offseason on the Facebook alumni page, and everything was positive and upbeat. We were all incredibly excited. We liked what we were seeing and hearing out of Madison. We had very high hopes. Then, the season happened. 

Things actually started out quite well out west. Madison was about two points down from Vanguard and about two points up from Blue Knights (2015’s 6^th place corps). We were hopeful, but those hopes were quickly dashed as we got into July, and Blue Stars and Blue Knights passed us, and we were clearly far behind Cavies and Regiment. Then Crossmen passed us, then the Academy, and suddenly Madison was the 12^th place corps and things were rocky heading into finals week. We were nervous. Very nervous.

Then finals week happened. Boston was in and Madison was out. We were all – alumni, members, staff, and the administration united in our anger. At the time, I (and seemingly all of us, frankly) believed the Boston pit girl who went viral was the sole reason Boston was in and Madison was out. DCI was capitalizing on a viral moment and Madison was the victim. We were completely stunned. All of us. United in shock, anger, grief and disbelief. After the initial shock wore off, reality set in, at least for me. I’ve been around this activity long enough to know that disappointment and bias can lead to anger and blaming anything other than what should be blamed. The design. The simple fact was Boston had a better design and they capitalized on that better design at the right time. Some girl didn’t get them into finals, the entire Boston organization got them into finals. I think a lot of my brothers also started to see this after the initial shock wore off. So, we started 2016 hoping the corps would improve on their 8^th place finish and it ended with them out of finals. A huge disappointment. 

2017 is where things really started to go downhill, IMO, in the relationship between the alumni and the administration. A lot of us felt the corps lost their identity in 2017. We were happy they made finals, but (I’m sorry) it was not a very entertaining show (to put it mildly). They were trying to play the design game but couldn’t do it in an entertaining way. To me, this is when the divide started. None of us wanted Madison to do Malaguena, Slaughter, Stars & Stripes or any other handful of great Madison tunes from the past. We wanted them to modernize while remaining entertaining. Well most of us did. There’s always gonna be a few 🙂. 2017 was modern, but it was not entertaining. The Scouts went from a fan favorite to a corps that got a polite applause. The visual design and overall design was better, but the musical design suffered. 

In 2018, it got much worse. It was obvious we were looking at a desperate design team that was unfocused, unexperienced (at least as a unit) and was trying anything hoping something would stick (a pattern that continues to this day). Not only was the 2018 show design extremely subpar, but the identity crisis also deepened, and the corps had its worst placement since DCI was founded. Of course, this was very upsetting to the alumni. To see a once great champion now a 16^th place corps. What alumni base wouldn’t be concerned and angry about the direction their corps was heading? 

Here, my memory is a bit foggy, but I remember clearly the administration forced the shutdown of the alumni Facebook group under the threat of legal action. I can’t recall if it was sometime in 2018 or 2019, but it was one of those years. That day, or shortly thereafter, was the day I stopped all financial support of this organization. They took away my place where I could reconnect with my brothers, relive memories, and share our experiences. Something only those of us who marched Madison can relate to and understand. The appropriate response of the administration should have been to open a dialogue. Talk to us. Help us understand your point of view. Ask for our support. Welcome us. Instead, they shunned us. All of us!

Yes, there are always people who are more vocal than others, and those that are going to scream and shout, but I remember them being a very small portion of us. An overwhelming majority of us were critical, but all we wanted the corps to retain its identity, remain entertaining, and get back to being a competitive force. It’s not a choice of having one or two and not the other(s). You can have all three. It’s not a choice of being financially sound or competitive. You can have both. Many corps do.

This administration has failed its alumni and its corps, it’s not the alumni who have failed this corps.

It seems no one at Madison today can handle any sort of criticism and that’s a HUGE problem. We only get better when we are open to feedback and critical thought. Instead, Chris has a bunch of yes men under him and on the board who can’t think for themselves, draw their own conclusions, or do what is in the best interest of the corps. As someone else said, board meetings are completely closed. The system is set up so there are no challenges to Chris’ authority. It’s entirely shocking to me! 

I do not support this administration. I want them out. They need to get out – Chris, the board, all of them. Madison will never find competitive success as long as they are there and as long as the support-mongers are out there spreading their false narrative and lies. 

I will always wish Madison and my new brothers and sisters happiness and success. But I will not offer any support, financial or otherwise, to the corps as long as those in power remain. They have proven they are incapable (time and time again) of putting together a well-designed show (or even a good one), much less a competitive and entertaining one. They cannot handle the slightest criticism and do not seem to care about their huge alumni base that could help them. They have been a complete and total failure. Blaming the alumni is ridiculous, and if they were pressured into doing the 2019 show by alumni (this accusation is just laughable), then how weak are they? We (the alumni) weren’t even there in 2019. The damage had been done by then. The rift had happened. We were already gone.

I’m so sick of the blame being thrown in every other direction than where it should be placed. It is not the judges fault, it’s not the alumnis fault, and it’s certainly not the members fault. It’s the fault of one person, and one alone, and we all know his name.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Vuitton