Madison Scouts 2023

[HockeyDad]

7 minutes ago, bobjective said:

So, from what I’ve been reading it seems as though the Scout Alumni can expect the same approach to competitive placement every year until there is a replacement of the current regime of the board and the ED. 

Remove the words “approach to” and I think you’ve nailed the sentiment.   Shut the door on your once loyal alumni base at your own risk, I guess. 

[Gantang]

21 hours ago, Cappybara said:

They've lost sight of what this activity is about: the members. 

"Members" want to win. That's why BD gets the cream of the talent auditioning from around the globe. It's why kids jump from corps to corps as their talent increases. It's why guys rook-outed at Madison or went from Madison to BD to rook-out. 

Winning is chased. 

[Cappybara]

5 minutes ago, Gantang said:

"Members" want to win. That's why BD gets the cream of the talent auditioning from around the globe. It's why kids jump from corps to corps as their talent increases. It's why guys rook-outed at Madison or went from Madison to BD to rook-out. 

Winning is chased. 

They aren’t a monolith. They don’t all share the same views on winning. Are we forgetting this is an educational youth activity? 

[C.Holland]

12 minutes ago, Gantang said:

"Members" want to win. That's why BD gets the cream of the talent auditioning from around the globe. It's why kids jump from corps to corps as their talent increases. It's why guys rook-outed at Madison or went from Madison to BD to rook-out. 

Winning is chased. 

Have you asked a member of cadets, crown, phantom, Spartans, troopers, caballeros, blue knights… etc why they’re where they are?   I know why my students march where they do and why, and those who went to scv or BD in the past did.  

[ComicJeff2012]

Just listened to an audio recording from a recent run through and gotta say….brass and percussion are both getting really good and cleaning up! This show musically has some serious power and I’m digging it! Can’t comment on visual because I haven’t seen any recent clips….but as far tonight and this final week, GO SCOUTS!!!

Edited August 5, 2023 by ComicJeff2012

[Gantang]

14 hours ago, Cappybara said:

Are we forgetting this is an educational youth activity? 

Why? Because they changed the terminology to "student" and "tuition"? That was for grant acceptance more than anything else. This is a competitive activity, or there wouldn't be judging. High school Solos and Ensembles is an educational youth activity, but the musicians want to earn Golds from the judges. You can educate and try to beat others because that is still a measuring stick.

If it's not, why are there judges at shows rather than the performances being exhibitions? Winning brings additional revenue into every line item. Without revenue, corps will be outspent, and the cycle will continue. Drum corps is a competitive educational youth activity. Madison is not competitive in World Class.

We're less than a week from the season being in the can. Madison has not made a move in points like all of the rose-colored glasses wearers claimed they would a month ago. That is not the kids' fault. That is the show's content, design, and instruction. Who hires those people??? The leadership.

The leadership is to blame yet again.

[Swmstom1998]

To those speaking about the non-competitive side of the corps being good…cool. My corps before Scouts, we were fed well, we had fun/memorable summers and made lifelong friends. But we also always finished in the upper teens or worse. When you got older, you left because most older marching-age people watched BD, SCV, Cavies, and that time, The Scouts, and wanted that opportunity to march under the lights on a Saturday night in front of a packed stadium and be looked at as rock stars of the activity. 
 As this current trend with Scouts goes, it will remain difficult to get back to competitive relevance because Scouts have now become the type of corps I left.  And that saddens me. The members having a great summer is important, sure, but if you want to keep them for the long haul, into their 19s to age outs, you HAVE to be competitive. You can turn a blind eye to it, but it is the truth. It is now, and has always been, a competitive activity.  If you’re ok with where the corps is competitive wise as long as the kids eat and are happy, then you will watch this corps continue to dissolve to irrelevancy, and maybe gone all together. 
 Change has to happen. This has gone on long enough. Something, or someone, has to right the ship. Other corps, corps that were NEVER in the realm of The Scouts in the 90s, and now some even well into the 2000s, have figured out. What did Mandarins do? What did Crown do? What did BAC, Bluecoats, etc do different than Scouts? How have they risen to be some of the best in the business when they all used to be an afterthought? 
 I wasn’t a fan of the co-Ed move, but I can stomach it if it means The Scouts are a marquee name again. It HAS to be fixed. 
Ok, hopping off my soapbox.
 

[C.Holland]

49 minutes ago, Swmstom1998 said:

 What did Mandarins do? What did Crown do? What did BAC, Bluecoats, etc do different than Scouts? 
 

well...  let's look at where this all started when it was degrading.  2000... i love Scott Stewart but he was cheap as all f.   2001... lets' get volunteers to design the show and see what happens... 2002... ooops... this is the beginning of the end. 

so let's go the obvious answer. (seriously, this isn't structural engineering here...  its a VERY simple answer that you already know)  unless you're thick af. 

 

the answer of "what did they do differently..."

they pumped literal s*** tons of money into their program and brought in a bunch of big names and then recruited the top of the top talent.  every one of these programs went from "building mode" to "finals mode" when someone showed up and dropped a pile of cash into the bank and they pushed everyone out and replaced it all with cash, names, and talent.   

You need designers unencumbered to bring the art... and you need talent that needs ZERO teaching beyond teaching them the show.  The less time teaching fundamentals the more time you spend teaching someone to stand on their head, playing 64th note runs, while juggling f'n chainsaws with their feet. 

welcome to 2023. (actually 1988... when money changed DCI)
money buys a finals spot.  you want a finals spot? cool.  bring some money.  a whole f'n giant pile of it.   not "i want to be a finals/champion of a regional band circuit" money... like I want to win a f'n tony money.  Like "i want to win best picture" type of money.   

Bloo had Doug, and then they threw a bunch of money at the rest of the show.  Nevermind the member experience (yes.. my students who marched there had some therapy bills to pay after their tenure)... that's a very different forum and likely needs a lawyer to moderate.  

you wanna be back on top?   Bring a giant f'n bag of money that makes even Scrooge McDuck blush, and then they can fire the design team and teaching staff (and all you old ####s can finally just stfu), replace them with people straight out of broadway, julie taymore? Mike Arden? Marianne Elliott?  Alex Timbers? sure, they'll gladly show up to assemble a show if the project is the right fit, and the cash is the right fit.  and boom.  come get your second place medal to BD since the best f'n team you want to design a show isn't leaving concord unless you buy them a private island in the domain of their choosing.  (and also let them still spend most of their time in the experience world that they've built in BD land)

Edited August 6, 2023 by C.Holland

[HockeyDad]

5 hours ago, C.Holland said:

well...  let's look at where this all started when it was degrading.  2000... i love Scott Stewart but he was cheap as all f.   2001... lets' get volunteers to design the show and see what happens... 2002... ooops... this is the beginning of the end. 

so let's go the obvious answer. (seriously, this isn't structural engineering here...  its a VERY simple answer that you already know)  unless you're thick af. 

 

the answer of "what did they do differently..."

they pumped literal s*** tons of money into their program and brought in a bunch of big names and then recruited the top of the top talent.  every one of these programs went from "building mode" to "finals mode" when someone showed up and dropped a pile of cash into the bank and they pushed everyone out and replaced it all with cash, names, and talent.   

You need designers unencumbered to bring the art... and you need talent that needs ZERO teaching beyond teaching them the show.  The less time teaching fundamentals the more time you spend teaching someone to stand on their head, playing 64th note runs, while juggling f'n chainsaws with their feet. 

welcome to 2023. (actually 1988... when money changed DCI)
money buys a finals spot.  you want a finals spot? cool.  bring some money.  a whole f'n giant pile of it.   not "i want to be a finals/champion of a regional band circuit" money... like I want to win a f'n tony money.  Like "i want to win best picture" type of money.   

Bloo had Doug, and then they threw a bunch of money at the rest of the show.  Nevermind the member experience (yes.. my students who marched there had some therapy bills to pay after their tenure)... that's a very different forum and likely needs a lawyer to moderate.  

you wanna be back on top?   Bring a giant f'n bag of money that makes even Scrooge McDuck blush, and then they can fire the design team and teaching staff (and all you old ####s can finally just stfu), replace them with people straight out of broadway, julie taymore? Mike Arden? Marianne Elliott?  Alex Timbers? sure, they'll gladly show up to assemble a show if the project is the right fit, and the cash is the right fit.  and boom.  come get your second place medal to BD since the best f'n team you want to design a show isn't leaving concord unless you buy them a private island in the domain of their choosing.  (and also let them still spend most of their time in the experience world that they've built in BD land)

You’re pinning this on Scott Stewart?  The beginning of the end?  He’s been gone 20 YEARS. Are you also blaming SCV’s inability to field a corps this year on Gail Royer?  
 

This is so preposterous it’s laughable. But I guess this is what the apologetics have left at this point. Thanks for the belly laugh. 
 

They need big barrels of cash?  Ok. What’s the holdup?  Other corps have done it. I guess when you alienate and close the door on a large chunk of your alumni base, the cash cow dries up a bit. I suppose this must be Scott Stewart’s fault too?  Certainly nothing the present regime has done is the problem. It’s Scott Stewart. That, plus people saying mean things on DCP.  Do I have that right?

Edited August 6, 2023 by HockeyDad

[Slingerland]

47 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

You’re pinning this on Scott Stewart?  The beginning of the end?  He’s been gone 20 YEARS. Are you also blaming SCV’s inability to field a corps this year on Gail Royer?  

Stewart made some bonehead moves in the early 2000s that changed the trajectory, so it's not completely wrong to point at him as a foundational element in the decline.

I just went and watched a run of them from this year (I haven't seen until now). The show is...ok - If this were BOA.

Visual demand is low relative to the field, and doesn't generate much in the way of GE (the hamster ball accomplishes nothing). Demand, musically, lines up with who they're recruiting, but holy schmokes, those kids in the guard need some much better quality instruction than what they're getting. I know that they're pulling probably more high school or less experienced performers, but still, there are expectations for a Madison guard that aren't close to being matched here. Not the kids' fault at all, but if they're not out this week having conversations and willing to spend some serious coin to upgrade the adults running that part of the program, they're never going to have a hope of going on after the dinner break on Friday ever again.