The whistleblowers and survivors of abuse in this industry are tired...

[Terri Schehr]

1 hour ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Yeah I heard a few things in the late 70s from an instructor regarding two of our high school aged guard members.  Then didn’t think too much of it but today 🤮

Oh I said something to them.  It was something like WTH is wrong with you?  Those are 16 year old girls.  

[Terri Schehr]

1 hour ago, HockeyDad said:

My favorite is:  they want to destroy the corps / they want the corps to fold.   One need look no further than the screed of a statement from CAE as they exited the stage. A case study in victim blaming. 

I think that might be my favorite.  This undying save the corps mission and to hell with the collateral damage. 

[scheherazadesghost]

35 minutes ago, FormerXyloWhiz said:

I doubt it.  Drum Corps isn't special and immune from the realities of the world.  Sexual violence is sickeningly common in American life in general:

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html

"Sexual violence is common. Over half of women and almost 1 in 3 men have experienced sexual violence involving physical contact during their lifetimes."

This is only based on what is reported, let alone the unknown unreported (it's vast).  But let's put that aside and go with the data for now.  So to math out some of this data (i'm open to any corrections):

Just shy of 42% of the USA population has experienced sexual violence in their lifetime based on that stat.  A little over 14% have experienced rape.  80% of reported rapes happen before the age of 25. 

Choose any random 5 drum corps members.  2 of them already have, or are likely to, suffer sexual violence in their lifetimes.  Now choose 7.  One of them is likely to suffer rape in their lifetime. 

Choose any corps.  Current capacity of 150 = 63 will suffer sexual violence in their lifetime.  21 of them will potentially suffer rape their lifetime.  17 of those people will experience it before the age of 25 according to the cdc page. 

I don't know the actual membership numbers, but let's say 15 of the corps are at max capacity.  That's 945 people marching this summer that will or already have in their lives suffered sexual assault.  315 of them will or already have in their lives suffered rape.  255 of them will experience it before the age of 25.

Extrapolate it back over the multiple decades many of these corps have existed, I'd be shocked if there is any corps where this has never happened.  And even if a modern corps does everything absolutely right to protect their members, it will still happen.  The sickness is in society at large.  We'll never change what is commonplace by pretending it is exception. 

 

Thank you for this. You've elaborated on many of my main points of the last two years.

And zoom out further to include ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) and we're looking at an even wider variety of concerns that drum corps admin and educators have to factor into their work: https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/fastfact.html

[greg_orangecounty]

35 minutes ago, FormerXyloWhiz said:

I doubt it.  Drum Corps isn't special and immune from the realities of the world.  Sexual violence is sickeningly common in American life in general:

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html

"Sexual violence is common. Over half of women and almost 1 in 3 men have experienced sexual violence involving physical contact during their lifetimes."

This is only based on what is reported, let alone the unknown unreported (it's vast).  But let's put that aside and go with the data for now.  So to math out some of this data (i'm open to any corrections):

Just shy of 42% of the USA population has experienced sexual violence in their lifetime based on that stat.  A little over 14% have experienced rape.  80% of reported rapes happen before the age of 25. 

Choose any random 5 drum corps members.  2 of them already have, or are likely to, suffer sexual violence in their lifetimes.  Now choose 7.  One of them is likely to suffer rape in their lifetime. 

Choose any corps.  Current capacity of 150 = 63 will suffer sexual violence in their lifetime.  21 of them will potentially suffer rape their lifetime.  17 of those people will experience it before the age of 25 according to the cdc page. 

I don't know the actual membership numbers, but let's say 15 of the corps are at max capacity.  That's 945 people marching this summer that will or already have in their lives suffered sexual assault.  315 of them will or already have in their lives suffered rape.  255 of them will experience it before the age of 25.

Extrapolate it back over the multiple decades many of these corps have existed, I'd be shocked if there is any corps where this has never happened.  And even if a modern corps does everything absolutely right to protect their members, it will still happen.  The sickness is in society at large.  We'll never change what is commonplace by pretending it is exception. 

 

I know unwanted sexual assault/touching/advances/crimes have been going on in Drum Corps since my first year marching - 1971.  I heard gallows humor about it that I didn’t understand at the time as I was young. What I will dispute is that it occurred in every corps at all times. It did not in the Anaheim Kingsmen the years that I marched (1971 - 1974). How can I say this? I knew and have kept up with everyone from those days still alive.* The caveat is if it actually did happen both parties kept it hidden from the rest of us. I doubt it as we know all the other dirty laundry in our lives as we’ve been friends for over 50 years. We were led by a Naval Officer who instilled in us respect and duty.

Dont want to get into CDC stats as that would lead (for me) down the road to politics which isn’t relevant in this forum.

I appreciate your thoughtful response. Thank you!

[FormerXyloWhiz]

14 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:

I know unwanted sexual assault/touching/advances/crimes have been going on in Drum Corps since my first year marching - 1971.  I heard gallows humor about it that I didn’t understand at the time as I was young. What I will dispute is that it occurred in every corps at all times. It did not in the Anaheim Kingsmen the years that I marched (1971 - 1974). How can I say this? I knew and have kept up with everyone from those days still alive.* The caveat is if it actually did happen both parties kept it hidden from the rest of us. I doubt it as we know all the other dirty laundry in our lives as we’ve been friends for over 50 years. We were led by a Naval Officer who instilled in us respect and duty.

Dont want to get into CDC stats as that would lead (for me) down the road to politics which isn’t relevant in this forum.

I appreciate your thoughtful response. Thank you!

I also appreciate your thoughtful response as well.  Go Kingsman!  😎

[IllianaLancerContra]

1 hour ago, FormerXyloWhiz said:

I doubt it.  Drum Corps isn't special and immune from the realities of the world.  Sexual violence is sickeningly common in American life in general:

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html

"Sexual violence is common. Over half of women and almost 1 in 3 men have experienced sexual violence involving physical contact during their lifetimes."

This is only based on what is reported, let alone the unknown unreported (it's vast).  But let's put that aside and go with the data for now.  So to math out some of this data (i'm open to any corrections):

Just shy of 42% of the USA population has experienced sexual violence in their lifetime based on that stat.  A little over 14% have experienced rape.  80% of reported rapes happen before the age of 25. 

Choose any random 5 drum corps members.  2 of them already have, or are likely to, suffer sexual violence in their lifetimes.  Now choose 7.  One of them is likely to suffer rape in their lifetime. 

Choose any corps.  Current capacity of 150 = 63 will suffer sexual violence in their lifetime.  21 of them will potentially suffer rape their lifetime.  17 of those people will experience it before the age of 25 according to the cdc page. 

I don't know the actual membership numbers, but let's say 15 of the corps are at max capacity.  That's 945 people marching this summer that will or already have in their lives suffered sexual assault.  315 of them will or already have in their lives suffered rape.  255 of them will experience it before the age of 25.

Extrapolate it back over the multiple decades many of these corps have existed, I'd be shocked if there is any corps where this has never happened.  And even if a modern corps does everything absolutely right to protect their members, it will still happen.  The sickness is in society at large.  We'll never change what is commonplace by pretending it is exception. 

 

Numbers alone would suggest that some proportion of those assaulted will go on to become an assaulter in the future.  
 

And the science/data geek in me wonders if there are comparable data sets from  other countries (or groups of countries like the EU)?

[Jeff Ream]

10 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

Oh I said something to them.  It was something like WTH is wrong with you?  Those are 16 year old girls.  

yeah we had code words to alert all if youngins were around so nothing nasty would be said. same thing for if parents were around.

i think in my years in the drumline, the oldest were early 30's down to 15 year olds. we looked after the kids. i mean they saw us do stupid stuff, but we tried to make sure they didn't.

[JimF-LowBari]

22 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

My favorite is:  they want to destroy the corps / they want the corps to fold.   One need look no further than the screed of a statement from CAE as they exited the stage. A case study in victim blaming. 

Ye olde “the problem isn’t that something bad happened, the problem is reporting it makes the group look bad”.

Shades of when Penn State scandal broke (live in PSU country 🙄)

Edited April 23 by JimF-LowBari