Cadets Suspend for 2024

[JimF-LowBari]

14 minutes ago, craiga said:

I don't dispute your figures. There were also more than 60 corps here in eastern Massachusetts.   

However, of the +1500  corps you accurately reference, +1400 never had anything to do with DCI, national tours, electronics, props, huge staffs, or having 15 unit convoys.  They simply went away because they DID NOT HAVE ADEQUATE REVENUE...even then.

Also, as many have noted, many fell victim to changes in society, just as Catholic churches, Grange halls, boy scouts, and most other neighborhood activities. 

Look, I'm now in my 60s, and there is nothing I would love more than to transport myself back to attending the World Open in Lynn, MA in 1979 and see 60 "local corps" over two days.  It's just not going to happen and DCI had nothing to do with it.

As I’ve been saying on a FB page “Sr/All Age corps are having problems and taken big hit in numbers since BITD. Some problems with the activity can be blamed on DCI policy. But not all”

[kevingamin]

21 hours ago, C.Holland said:

Students now only get a few seasons to march. And they go to places where they enjoy the programming, and the staff. If you want to tell a student “sorry kid, you’re stuck with (corps names)” you’re going to kill corps much faster when they can’t fill ranks and you’ve now made the activity give students a bad taste. 
 

now that doesn’t mean a student doesn’t take their closest option to start out for a season or two to learn. But they then often go to audition for one or two of the places they really like. 

My marching experience is from the 90s, plus I come from a drum corps family (3rd generation marcher), so my experiences are unique to me, but I think because my family was so involved with local drum corps, from my grandparents through my aunt and uncle, it only made sense to me to march as local as possible. It didn't hurt that the Canton Bluecoats had finished 8th in 1990, so that less than an hour drive to their winter camps was even more appealing as a result. Unfortunately, my lack of corps style experience (my high school was Big 10 style chair step, so not very helpful for getting into a Division 1 corps) and my youth (I was 16 when I tried out) meant I only made it through 3 camps before I was let go. The staff did what they could to help me, as well, working with me individually when they saw I needed the help, but it just wasn't enough.

My mentality meant, to me, that I would try out for one of the next closest corps in 1992, in this case the Toledo Glassmen, which were just over 2 hours away. I was now a year older, had my own car, and had a better understanding of what it took to do drum corps. As a result, my rookie season with with the Glassmen, as were the next four until I aged out in 1996. This was at a time when Glassmen would tout the locally based membership, with half the corps living within a 3 hour drive of the corps. This was also at a time when corps fees were under $1000 while I lived at home, worked 30-35 hours a week at a local grocery store, and commuted to/from Akron U while my tuition was covered by grants (no loans! Remember when that was even possible?).

Consider how many of those factors have changed in the past 25-30 years:

• Less junior corps in the area (as of this week, only Bluecoats are within a 3 hour drive of my area)
• Tour fees are much higher ($4000-$6000 is the ballpark range now)
• While the first show is much later in the season, spring training starts around the same time, if not earlier
• Non-activity related costs for members have also gone up, including, but not limited to, transportation (driving/flying) and education (college tuition, room and board, and travel)
• Meanwhile, wages for jobs for high school and college age people have not risen to meet the rise of the above costs, making it harder to afford paying those fees. If it wasn't for services like GoFundMe, how many members would not march in today's activity?
• A lot of these members do more than drum corps. High schoolers may do BOA, TOB, US Bands, and/or their state competitions, while high school and college age people also may do indoor guard, percussion, or winds. These also have costs,

So much has changed over time. How much does the activity need to change off the field in order to ensure that it remains on it?

[MikeD]

24 minutes ago, craiga said:

I don't dispute your figures. There were also more than 60 corps here in eastern Massachusetts.   

However, of the +1500  corps you accurately reference, +1400 never had anything to do with DCI, national tours, electronics, props, huge staffs, or having 15 unit convoys.  They simply went away because they DID NOT HAVE ADEQUATE REVENUE...even then.

Also, as many have noted, many fell victim to changes in society, just as Catholic churches, Grange halls, boy scouts, and most other neighborhood activities. 

Look, I'm now in my 60s, and there is nothing I would love more than to transport myself back to attending the World Open in Lynn, MA in 1979 and see 60 "local corps" over two days.  It's just not going to happen and DCI had nothing to do with it.

I recall from RAMD days that the history of drum corps book written way back said there were 440 competing corps in 1971 just prior to DCI. i’m sure there were lots of parade corps as well. I marched in one in the mid 60’s. No idea how complete or accurate any of these numbers are.

So many corps came and went before DCI came along.  Churches who ran many corps in the 50’s and 60’s were dropping out well before DCI. Heck, the Cadets are an example of that. 
 

Today there are thousands of competitive bands that replaced the small local corps, numerically speaking.

 

 

[kevingamin]

21 hours ago, C.Holland said:

But this helps the case for DCI all age.  They can now march, not kill their accounts, not have to travel as far. And still get an Indy weekend. 

I think we're beginning to see another side to the decision to bring the DCA corps into the DCI All-Age fold. This was definitely not just for DCA's benefit.

[craiga]

7 minutes ago, MikeD said:

I recall from RAMD days that the history of drum corps book written way back said there were 440 competing corps in 1971 just prior to DCI. i’m sure there were lots of parade corps as well. I marched in one in the mid 60’s. No idea how complete or accurate any of these numbers are.

So many corps came and went before DCI came along.  Churches who ran many corps in the 50’s and 60’s were dropping out well before DCI. Heck, the Cadets are an example of that. 
 

Today there are thousands of competitive bands that replaced the small local corps, numerically speaking.

 

 

Yes...the Holy Name Cadets.....and Most Precious Blood Crusaders...

[Old Guy]

3 hours ago, ContraFart said:

Are the Cadets not touring this year because of their props and electronics? Or is the overall issue bigger? 

YES!  They are not touring because of their props. Cut the props. 
 

They are not touring because of their spring training. Cut a week. 
 

They are not touring because of their staff. Cut 10%. 
 

They choose not to tour in 2024 because they didn’t want to cut a bit here and there. 
 

They are in a particular situation where they can’t rely on their past economy because of 2018 and subsequent event. but there are corps out there doing it for 1,5M. Or 1,3m. And 1M. 
 

Whatever the reason of their decision, they could have pull it off. 
 

To me, this is not a revenus problem. While you always work to grow your revenus, the success you get is the line you draw in the sand. Expenses can’t go further than that line. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Old Guy

[IllianaLancerContra]

24 minutes ago, MikeD said:

I recall from RAMD days that the history of drum corps book written way back said there were 440 competing corps in 1971 just prior to DCI. i’m sure there were lots of parade corps as well. I marched in one in the mid 60’s. No idea how complete or accurate any of these numbers are.

So many corps came and went before DCI came along.  Churches who ran many corps in the 50’s and 60’s were dropping out well before DCI. Heck, the Cadets are an example of that. 
 

Today there are thousands of competitive bands that replaced the small local corps, numerically speaking.

 

 

When I was stationed in Belleville IL, I came across a 1959 newspaper article talking about previous night’s D&BC competition.  15 Corps (3 all-girl) from within a 20-mile radius.   Yes, most were probably in the 50-member range.  But that doesn’t mean that they weren’t entertaining.   

[Old Guy]

2 hours ago, Vuitton said:

You have to stop with this "don't like" label. I love everything about modern drum corps. EVERYTHING! But, it is not sustainable. Corps are absolutely not going to be able to sustain the revenue necessary to compete at the highest level. It is not possible. Sure some may be in the black today, but that doesn't mean they won't be in the red tomorrow.

You have to look at every single expense. You're talking 2.6% (I don't know where you got that number) of a mulit-million dollar budget, year over year over year. It all adds up. Everything adds up. 

And retail margin profit are often lower than 2,6%. So that small 2,6% must be very important to some. 

[ContraFart]

12 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

YES!  They are not touring because if their props. Cut the props. 
 

They are not touring because of their spring training. Cut a week. 
 

They are not touring because of their staff. Cut 10%. 
 

They choose not to tour in 2024 because they didn’t want to cut a bit here and there. 
 

They are in a particular situation where they can’t rely on their past economy because of 2018 and subsequent event. but there are corps out there doing it for 1,5M. Or 1,3m. And 1M. 
 

Whatever the reason of their decision, they could have pull it off. 
 

To me, this is not a revenus problem. While you always work to grow your revenus, the success you get is the line you draw in the sand. Expenses can’t go further than that line. 

I will bet you every penny I have and will ever earn that props, 10% of the staff and a week of spring training is not the reason why they are not touring this year. When you go from 5th place corps to not touring, the problems are larger and small cuts do not prevent circumstances like these from happening in the future

Edited October 15, 2023 by ContraFart

[Old Guy]

2 hours ago, ContraFart said:

If they were that irresponsible, there would not be corps that operate in the black, and not just the ones in the top 5. 

The day when tuition is 15% of their revenus, we will be able to say « they are responsable »   Until then, keep working and plan for 2044. 2024 is too short sight.