33 years of DCI champions

[Cardman]

Just saying...

The Cavaliers weren't as clean as The Cadets or Blue Devils. The Cadets smoked The Cavaliers in terms of Visuals and Musical Performance and obviously Blue Devils heading everything else. Reason why The Cavaliers were higher than the Cadets was a huge gap between their General Effect. The Cadets were 0.10 away from Blue Devils' brass, 0.10 away from Blue Devils' visual performance and were very close to Blue Devils in other captions as well, leaving Cavaliers "dirtier" than Blue Devils or Cadets. However the Cavaliers won 2nd with a whopping 0.60 spread over The Cadets in General Effect

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are insane if you think that the Cadets "smoked" the Cavies in visuals that year! Cavies had the best visual BY FAR that year (2003), and should have won. This is the biggest disagreement I have had with the judges over the years.

BEFORE I POST...

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT MY OPINIONS ARE NOT PRESENTED HERE AS A "SLAM" AGAINST THE KIDS OF THESE CORPS. I RESPECT EVERY MARCHING MEMBER OF EVERY CORPS. I HAVE THE UTMOST ADMIRATION FOR THE PRODUCTS THEY PLACED ON THE FIELD.

OK, now that THAT'S out of the way...

My "disagreements" are:

1. 2003-Cavies should have beaten Blue Devils because they had a FAR superior (and very well executed) drill, and their music was SO much better than the Devils. This is probably where I lose most of you. I am talking about the arranging, folks. But in addition, I enjoyed the Cavies' music a lot more than the Devils. Spin Cycle was just a great little piece. A little hard to get into at first, but still... PLUS, the Devils pull out the same ol' freaking "run around the cymbal rack while whacking it" schtick that they did the year before (and it was to much better effect in '02...) They ALSO repeated the peddle tones (sp?) from the previous year...LAME. Don't get me wrong. I think that the 2003 Blue Devils did an awesome job of executing their show (like always). I just think that their show design could not match the Cavies' show design. My wife, who is a non-drumcorps person, and has only been watching corps for 3 years (she saw '03 with me...) agrees with me, and it really aggravates us both that the Devils won. I will say that the Devils' colorguard outfits were definitely better than the Cavalier's... Talk about uuuggly! :)

2. 2000-Cavies/Cadets tie-Hmmm....Cavies have superior/cleaner drill but have terrible music (IMO), and the Cadets have pretty good music with very sloppy drill...I have to give the edge to the Cavies, though I'm not real hot for that show...Cadets I think only won because everyone loved the drum feature so much with the tenors, and whatnot...(yeah, that tenor solo was awesome to see live, but so what?)

3. 1999-SCV/Devils tie- SCV. They had the better show, and the better presentation of that show on finals night. Devils were a little off that night (soloist frack, etc..) so it was tough to call. I LOVED the Devils' show all that season, and then I saw SCV at Finals, and I just felt something special I didn't feel with Devils. Yes, Devils were cleaner in drill, but their drill was also easier...still, they were both awesome to watch and listen to (especially Devils' victory performances that year..wow.) I guess I'm just happy that SCV at least got a PIECE of the title.

4. 1996-Phantom/Devils tie-Okay, when I saw Phantom's show on finals night, I was thinking "I can't believe they're in third place!" Then, I saw Cadets and Blue Devils' shows, and I thought "This is boloney...Phantom should be beating BOTH of these corps" Well, I couldn't believe it when the tie was announced. Again, I admit I was just happy that Phantom at least got a PIECE of the trophy, but as time passes, and I watch the Devils show on video and compare it to Phantom's show, I get more and more irritated. I'll admit, I HATED (hate) Blue Devils' show from that year. It was just awful (musically). I couldn't stand it, it was so boring, IMO. Those kids that executed it were awesome, but they were given a sub-par product to execute. The music consisted of "BLAT!! BLAT!! BLAT!!!" a lot, with good (though simpler compared to the competition) drill...This is just my take on it.

5. 1987-SCV should have won it, IMO. I LOVED (love) Garfield's music from that year, and they were great visually (for then), but SCV had the emotion (even with the tear in the opener) and the story that pulled you in. They also had awesome execution in music and drill (minus the tear in the opener...). I could watch their show a million times, even today. I can't say the same for Garfield. I still love Garfield's show, but I still wish it would have been SCV in the winner's circle that night...

Edited August 25, 2005 by Cardman

[Aaw]

Uh, not this year.

[SiFrySopUK]

For those of you who are to young to remember, they got caught with 2 overage members the week before DCI. (NOT SCVs fault by the way, they had forged their birth certificates).

At the time, there was talk of DQing them, but I don't think that was ever a serious consideration.

If you look at the 89 video, SCV seem to be marching a space or 2!

Take a look... although its been a while since Ive seen it.

[PR_ducky]

If you look at the 89 video, SCV seem to be marching a space or 2!

Take a look... although  its been a while since Ive seen it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yea, if you watch the snare line, there is a gap and they bounce off each other like pinballs the whole show. Still won drums (which they deserved) but lost Marching which they did not deserve.

[TexasPRfan]

Well, honoring the request to provide input only on shows I saw live, I'll start with 89, my first year at finals. (what a first year, huh?)

89 -- Maybe the hardest of all. It's hard to argue with percussion costing Regiment. Plus, this was one of those years that the emotion of being there that night was definitely with SCV's show. DVDs/tapes/whatever never can fully duplicate the emotion that you experienced live at some shows. SCV's was one of those. PR had superior execution - but not by enough to overcome that in GE & the percussion gap. I agree with SCV in first.

90 -- Cadets deserved this championship. Chock full of demand, an emotional "Somewhere" ballad, and tons of live excitement to end the show. If Star had finished their marching execution learning curve a year earlier in 90 instead of 91, they could have challenged, though, as their show was otherwise stellar (apart from color guard).

91 -- This one was not even close. Star was only robbed by not getting a higher score, and a bigger gap. Cavaliers did not have the musical content or depth to compete, and the gap in brass quality was the size of the grand canyon.

92 -- It's hard to explain, but this may still be my favorite Cavies championship. Perhaps it was all the sentiment/emotion in the stands with folks pulling for them to finally bring one home - while Brubaker was among us. However, it's a hard year to pick the winner for. Cadets could have easily won -- IF they had a better hornline. Star was immaculate, but something just seemed to be missing from the show, apart from the beautiful ballad, from an emotion perspective. So in the end, I agree with the edge to Cavies, although it was probably their least well executed championship show.

93 -- Probably the hardest to call after 89, but I agree with Cadets. In my opinion that show just had so much more difficulty in music demand. I loved Star's show, too, but how long did that whole brass ensemble play, instead of small sections? Cadets marched - and played - the #### out of their show. And the guard was emotional & phenomenal. The best show that year, though was Regiment's -- as even Hopkins said, if Regiment had had another week to clean, look out!

94 -- BD, and not even close. Maybe the most obvious winner due to the lack of another championship caliber show of any year I've been to finals. DCI's weakest year in my 17 years of going to Finals.

95 -- Very similar to 92, this was a GREAT year for DCI for the whole top 12. Yet just like 92, it was hard to finger any show as clearly invincible, chamiphionship quality. Cadets clearly had the most emotional show of the top 3, but their were still serious execution issues on Saturday night in both guard & marching, and there was so much downtime before and after the dance hall set up. Cavaliers had a brilliant, intricate show, but that horn line? Maybe the weakest hornline ever for a winning corps. BD was flawless. Yet, emotionally, the show did not always connect to the audience live that week. In the end, I think the judges got it right.

96 -- Yes, I'm biased, but PR deserved this one all by themselves. Their execution was stunning -- most awesome display of marching & guard flag execution I've seen in a long time. And the emotion on Saturday night was of an 89 SCV caliber. Dark, brooding, intense, powerful, and ultimately triumphant. Possibly the best brass performance ever, rivaling the best BD & Star years. BD's show to me did not connect well to the audience (on an emotional level), and there was not enough open, exposed ensemble demand - especially in drill. (Drill? what drill?). If Cadets had been cleaner, they would have taken 2nd.

97 -- Here's a year where the best SHOW was 2nd (Cadets), but I wholeheartedly agree that BD deserved to win. This was back when they swapped Hi/Lo for Super 3 tickets over the 3 nights (which was awesome, by the way - I wish they still did that). Once my group sat up in the upper deck for Semis & saw BD's visual GE & execution, there was not a doubter among us. Perhaps the cleanest, tightest show ever to win a title. Cadets won our hearts that year with insane demand and powerful emotions, but that show was just to darn difficult to bring up to BD's level of execution - and BD had a darned difficult drill that year, too.

98 -- HMMM. I think Cadets win here by default. Probably my least favorite winning show of my 17 years of going. Musically, there were many places in this show (apart from the ballad) that just did not appeal to me. However, the great, kladiescopic blender box (was novel back then) that just kept getting more complex (direction change combinations) towards then end of the show took it over the edge. SCV's, and even BD's shows were far more enjoyable to my tastes, but BD was not clean, and SCV's ending was just lacking that year, similar to 97.

99 -- The only year I actually approved of a tie. Going into Saturday night, BD was clearly the superior corps, but BD had an off night on Saturday night and SCV had raw, channeled emotion that night. Their presence & intensity on Saturday will never leave my memory. If they'd had a stronger closer than Blue Shades, they could have taken it alone. At the same time, BD's brass line was unbelievable, and their guard was head and shoulders above everyone that year. I can't pick a winner on this one. They both deserved it.

00 -- Cavaliers had the best performance, of an awesome show, on Saturday night. They deserved to win, by themselves, by the slimmest of margins. Maybe my least favorite guard program ever by Cadets -- where was the unison work? Cavaliers music book was divine, and the drill was sheer genius. Until the the last 1/3 of the show, nothing really stood out for Cadets. Yes, the last 1/3 tears the house down (it was fantastic), but the first 2/3s of that show were a shallow comparison.

01 -- Hard to argue with Cavaliers' championship, although apart from the "groove/head bopping section," this was a decidedly forgettable music show. Yet, the visual demand, execution and innovation were awesome. However, I think Cadets should have been within a tenth or 2 of Cavies. This is a very under-rated show. If Cadets would have had less visual down time during the very long but delightful Moondance, in my opinion they would have deserved 1st. Unbelievable brass line from Cadets that year. And the closing drill move by Cadets, with the lone spinning guard guy turning the block inside out, was just awesome. BD was hot that year too, with a phenomenal, high energy guard - but musically, the Downey choppiness "illness" began to set in.

02 -- As far as least favorite championship shows, this Cavalier show is only surpassed by the 98 Cadets for me. Did this corps play above mf? Yawn. Only the fight club gimmick injected excitement into the show. Yet, it was visually innovative, and the hornline was sqeaky clean, if lacking in demand. The problem was there was not another championship caliber show that summer. The score was a joke. Far from the best show ever. Scores are relative to the year and the competition, though, and no one could touch cavaliers - in any caption.

03 -- To me, this was a no contest year. No one could touch BD in 03. For those that thought Cavaliers executed better that year? Uh, I didn't see it. I saw the least well marched Cavalier show of the new millenium - especially on Saturday night. BD had unmatched energy in 03, a better music book, and maybe the best CG of the decade so far? Ironically, of the 01-03 time period, this was my favorite Cavalier show from a music perspective, though. Cadets should have caught Cavies for 2nd - based on Saturday night performances. Cadets were far cleaner on Saturday night than were Cavaliers. None of the top 3 held a candle to Phantom Regiment in 03, though from a Music or emotion perspective, though. Regiment '03 - somewhat like SCV 89 and Scouts 95 - was a show you had to experience live. Goosebump city. If only they'd had a better visual & guard design.

04 -- Cavaliers, in a no contest year. Although, I will say, by finally adding a real ending - with much closure and excitement on Saturday night, BD came close. However, where was BD's drill? 2 parallel lines for half the show (yes, I know the whole railroad tracks/train idea) should not win a championship. Cavliers had everything in 04, and finally added power and accessible music to what they brought in visual innovation in 01-03. Sheer brilliance. SCV was emotional, but in the end, there was just something hard to finger that left this show deservedly in 3rd. Visual execution was not up to the level of BD and Cavies, for one thing.

05 -- Cadets - in another no contest year. This show had everything - emotion, brass performance, music depth, visual demand and execution, color guard. Pardon the "pun" but the Wizard dream girl's sequence, where she conjurs the drum line during the ballad, was my only goose bumps of 05 apart from Carolina Crown. Cavaliers were wonderful - but nothing stood out in this show from an emotion or exposed demand perspective. The drill was amazing & intricate - but felt limited in scope. Phantom was Phantastic. Sheer joy to behold. But ultimately not as clean, nor as much visual demand as Cadets.

There's my humble opinions.

Harvey

[Phansouth]

78- PR

88- SCV

89- PR

92- Star (Don't shoot me, but they were the cleanest IMO.) I didn't care much for the show itself.

99- BD

00- Cadets

03- Cavies

[Rocketman]

Maybe whoever came in second's best performance still wasn't as good as SCVs not best performance

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the great debate! I do not know if you were there, I obviously was, and based on those two performances, the performance of the group slotted 2nd (IM bias O) was superior to the group that was given the title.

Rocketman - is it sour here, or is it just me?

ampssuck

[George82]

You are insane if you think that the Cadets "smoked" the Cavies in visuals that year!  Cavies had the best visual BY FAR that year (2003), and should have won.  This is the biggest disagreement I have had with the judges over the years.

BEFORE I POST...

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT MY OPINIONS ARE NOT PRESENTED HERE AS A "SLAM" AGAINST THE KIDS OF THESE CORPS.  I RESPECT EVERY MARCHING MEMBER OF EVERY CORPS.  I HAVE THE UTMOST ADMIRATION FOR THE PRODUCTS THEY PLACED ON THE FIELD.

OK, now that THAT'S out of the way...

My "disagreements" are:

 

5.  1987-SCV should have won it, IMO.  I LOVED (love) Garfield's music from that year, and they were great visually (for then), but SCV had the emotion (even with the tear in the opener) and the story that pulled you in.  They also had awesome execution in music and drill (minus the tear in the opener...).  I could watch their show a million times, even today.  I can't say the same for Garfield.  I still love Garfield's show, but I still wish it would have been SCV in the winner's circle that night...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You obviously have a preference for the SCV show over the Cadet show..even with the obvious performance issues that night.

However, how could SCV have "awesome execution" in music and yet have an ensemble tear in the beginning of the show??? Isn't your statement somewhat contradictory??? You can't ignore it like it just didn't happen....not in DCI Finals. The champion does not have ensemble tears in their finals performance. Was SCV's performance wothy of the championship that night...I think not.

You also insinuate the Cadets performance did not equal the emotional level of SCV that night. The program didn't have the "in your face" intensity as SCV's but the emotion was there and it was tremendous. They performed a ballet and did it beautifully...and a perfect percussion score to boot.

[Phantom&Phitch]

You are insane if you think that the Cadets "smoked" the Cavies in visuals that year!  Cavies had the best visual BY FAR that year (2003), and should have won.  This is the biggest disagreement I have had with the judges over the years.

1.  2003-Cavies should have beaten Blue Devils because they had a FAR superior (and very well executed) drill, and their music was SO much better than the Devils.  This is probably where I lose most of you.  I am talking about the arranging, folks.  But in addition, I enjoyed the Cavies' music a lot more than the Devils.  Spin Cycle was just a great little piece.  A little hard to get into at first, but still...  PLUS, the Devils pull out the same ol' freaking "run around the cymbal rack while whacking it" schtick that they did the year before (and it was to much better effect in '02...)  They ALSO repeated the peddle tones (sp?) from the previous year...LAME.  Don't get me wrong.  I think that the 2003 Blue Devils did an awesome job of executing their show (like always).  I just think that their show design could not match the Cavies' show design.  My wife, who is a non-drumcorps person, and has only been watching corps for 3 years (she saw '03 with me...) agrees with me, and it really aggravates us both that the Devils won.  I will say that the Devils' colorguard outfits were definitely better than the Cavalier's...  Talk about uuuggly!  :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well then.... Cavaliers really didnt have anything soo amazing in their show that stands out, other then when they had the circle cutting pieces off the long block with the follow the leader lines... other then that nothing was seemes extrordinarily hard... the music wasnt that great. it was a good show none the less, but they didnt preform it as that... their preformance was LESS then stellar, esp the guard, i'm not a guard person so i cant say for sure, but theye just looked annoying and dirty the whole show, the same goes for their playing and marching....

and then you accuse the blue devils of using things from shows past? what about the cavaliers using the diamond cutter two years in a row? what about them using their rotating 4 people show after show? their visual has been the same since 2001... its getting boring b/c you see the same kinds of moves year after year... and everyone praises michael gaines soooo much, and yea, the guy writes so #### good drill.... but tis not the best anymore like it used to be when it first came out... i want to see him try to write soemthing for a group other the 64... its too easy doing stuff with a perfect square...

[glory]

What I take from this discussion is that by and large we agree with the judges. Most of the posts indicate there are few instances where we think the judges chose the wrong winner. And further endorsing the judges, most of the instances where there were complaints were confined to years when there were ties (a coin toss for sure) or very tight increments between one and two.

For all we hear through the season about the mistakes the judges make, it appears in retrospect and in aggregate we think they do a pretty good job. Agreed?

HH

Edited August 25, 2005 by glory