"After you age out...."

[dannyboy]

Not sure about today, but many of my corps mates quit marching DCA when they hit 22. Reason had nothing to do with age and everything to do with graduating college and having to start a "real life".

s/ Guy who marched (first time) from age 16 to 22.......

Not sure I understand. Of the "older people" in the DCA corps, they all pretty much have "real life" careers, kids, etc. Corps for them (us) is a "weekend warrior" thing. Some people spend the weekend hitting a little white ball around or digging in the garden. We play and march.

Of the "kids" in DCA corps, they can work a summer job during the week and the "off" weekends during the summer -- to save for college. Something DCI tour makes impossible.

Some kids start out in DCA corps, gain experience marching side-by-side with "legends" of the activity (how would you like to be 14 years old and march next to Cozy Baker?), then go do the DCI tour experience, age out, then come back to the DCA activity.

My stepson marched with us in Kilties, went on to Madison Scouts, will probably age-out from there, and talks of his eventual return to his Kiltie Family. We'll be waiting for him.

It's fun. We had a contra player and his 4 daughters/stepdaughters were in guard. Lots of parent/child and husband/wife teams in DCA corps. What a nice way to spend weekends, eh?

[JimF-LowBari]

Dan,

Lot of the "having to leave at age 22" problem had to do with the jobs we were able to get right after college. Some of my corps mates had to leave the area after college to find a job in their field. My first job after college was in my home area but had to work all three shifts (rotating shift work) in a computer complex and only one weekend a month free. Kicker was at 3AM one night we had to call someone to repair one of the systems. Who walks in but one of our ex-Contra players who also had to leave corps because of his work schedule. This was the very early 1980s and I believe the economy wasn't too good for people just starting out so "first job" choices were slim.

True after a few years the job situation eased off and it was possible to go back. But sadly it seems it's a lot harder to return after a few years off. I returned for parts of two seasons but was with the Main Guard due to other reasons.

[sburstall]

To me, there is nothing stranger than seeing an adult in a marching band costume.

...or a football uniform...or a baseball uniform...or a cat costume... or a...you get the picture. An adult is any kind of costume is strange, but people still do it.

[kusankusho]

from Alberta... spent a lot of time in a couple of Corps in the region there too, before moving on to a corps in California :) Unfortunately, the entire western side of Canada has no currently active competing (JR or SR) Drum and Bugle Corps (as of this past season), although at one time there were a lot more.... and the first corps I was a member of (and where my heart is) used to be a Division I corps, back in the day.... but sadly they went inactive in 05.. Maybe one day we will see them return as a DCI member corps... I can always dream. Last I heard they were thinking of starting a senior group.. but that was s0till in the thinking/planning stages. I wish I could help the state of drum corps in Canada, but thats kinda hard to do, living in AZ.

Alberta - let's see - Strutters, Allegiance Elite, Alberta All-Girls, Pride, probably more I can't come up with offhand (sorry) - there has to be a ton of talent at all age levels out there with no place to go. That province could put together one kick-### senior corps!

Edited September 7, 2006 by kusankusho

[Canadacorps]

Alberta - let's see - Strutters, Allegiance Elite, Alberta All-Girls, Pride, probably more I can't come up with offhand (sorry) - there has to be a ton of talent at all age levels out there with no place to go. That province could put together one kick-### senior corps!

Exactly. b**bs

Hopefully something comes to fruition out of those talks up there.. it'd be nice to have a DC presence in the western half of the country again.

[Fran Haring]

I'm not entirely sure that's accurate. I am pretty sure that is the case for other branches band/corps type groups, but I think in the Marine Corps, everyone has to do everything from standing on the yellow footprints to The Crucible.

Members of The President's Own, the U.S. Marine Band in Washington DC, do NOT go through full Marine basic training.

Members of The Commandant's Own, the Marine Drum and Bugle Corps, do go through full basic training.

Heh.... brings to mind a chat I had with a buddy of mine who is a professional percussionist with the U.S. Army Band at West Point. He and the rest of the band members had to go through basic training, and they take weapons training, physical training, etc.

But like he told me, "Yes, we have weapons training.... but if you ever see the Army Band members holding weapons, then the fighting's pretty much over by that point!!!!" LOL

Fran

Edited September 8, 2006 by Fran Haring

[Fran Haring]

Fran,

I love you. You know I love you. I know you know I love you and I know you know what I'm about to say is coming from a place of love and respect.

I know a lot of all-age supporters agree with you. I also know what I'm about to say will get dismissed by a LOT of all-age supporters as a "cop-out" or whatever else they choose to consider it in order to discount it. Whatever you choose to believe it is, this is NOT "them vs us" in any way shape or form. This is pure marketing. It could apply to ANYthing.

From a purely marketing standpoint, ANY STATEMENT that could serve to muddle either your "brand" or message is a waste of costly airtime. Particularly in video media and advertising (and let's face it.. what we saw last night was just a great big commercial for drum corps).

To the complete outsider, we're "marching band" because they don't know any better. Two hours was dedicated to creating a distinction.. establishing "this drum corps thing" as the "major leagues" -- and differentiating it from "marching band." We're only barely scratching the surface of that glacier.. but the complete outsider now has a very basic understanding that "drum corps" is something more than just "marching band" .. in marketing, you have to boil your brand down to basics in order to build it.

What DCI has strived to do is create a vernacular. When THEY talk about "drum corps" they want potential marchers, potential fans and potential supporters to mean DCI (and likewise, don't believe for a second that if the situation was reversed and DCA was the organization leading the media blitz they would do it even a little bit differently.. they would do the EXACT same thing.. because it would be in DCA's best interest to do so. The media doesn't leave room for magnanimity). Because that vernacular is being developed slowly, if you were to attempt further differentiation, it would muddy the waters and you can't effectively build your "brand" in muddy water.

As a complete outsider, you're still getting used to "drum corps" vs "marching band" and you've barely grasped that.. but NOW it's being intimated that "JUNIOR" drum corps is a further segmentation.. "wait... what??" you think to yourself.. "man, this is way more complicated than I have time for.. " *click* that's obviously not always going to be the case.. but in the majority of cases, it's a split second decision and that's exactly how it goes down.

The ULTIMATE GOAL is to get people to watch. Get them interested. Get them to shows. Get them to become FANS -- does it really matter that they started out being a fan of DCI or DCA? Once they "come inside" they will OBVIOUSLY see all the facets and levels "this drum corps thing" has to offer.. THAT'S the point at which you want to be able to say to them.. "hey, you thought THAT was cool.. get a load of THIS!! we've got a drum corps for EVERYBODY.."

Trying to jam too much specialization into your message or your brand while you're still building it will only serve to lose you the attention of your desired audience.

Stef, I completely understand your point, and I agree with the "branding" theme. And you know I love you, too. :P

I guess what bothers me much, much more than DCI's "when you're 22 your drum corps career is over" mantra of years past (and again, I'm very grateful that they did not do that this year. Well... except for Jessica....LOL)..... is when instructors on junior corps staffs openly deride all-age corps... and it has happened over the years.

THOSE folks are not part of the "novice" audience DCI is trying to reach.... they're already part of the "club" and they're preaching to corps members, who also are already in the club! Those intructors and staff members who do this, quite frankly, should know better, and behave better.

As much as I don't like when people on the all-age/alumni side won't give modern-day junior corps the time of day, I also have no stomach for folks on the junior side who do not keep an open mind on the all-age activity.

Fran

[Kamarag]

But like he told me, "Yes, we have weapons training.... but if you ever see the Army Band members holding weapons, then the fighting's pretty much over by that point!!!!" LOL

Fran

I used to think that way too...until I got sent to Iraq. Though we was there to play music, we still had to be trained and carry loaded weapons. In the case of Division Bands, they pull the same sentry dudty as other soldiers, and were at risk every day. I have the pictures to prove it!

I do believe that quote still applies for the West Point and other Army special bands.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Kamarag

[MikeD]

Stef, I completely understand your point, and I agree with the "branding" theme. And you know I love you, too. :P

I guess what bothers me much, much more than DCI's "when you're 22 your drum corps career is over" mantra of years past (and again, I'm very grateful that they did not do that this year. Well... except for Jessica....LOL)..... is when instructors on junior corps staffs openly deride all-age corps... and it has happened over the years.

THOSE folks are not part of the "novice" audience DCI is trying to reach.... they're already part of the "club" and they're preaching to corps members, who also are already in the club! Those intructors and staff members who do this, quite frankly, should know better, and behave better.

As much as I don't like when people on the all-age/alumni side won't give modern-day junior corps the time of day, I also have no stomach for folks on the junior side who do not keep an open mind on the all-age activity.

Fran

As you aluded to in the final paragraph....the problem goes both ways. LOTS of DCA folks I know of over the years express nothing but contempt for DCI and DCI-style shows. You even see that attitude now here in DCP from some of the DCA forum comments. I saw one post talk about how some of the top DCA corps placed as high as they because they are doing "DCI" shows, as opposed to REAL DCA shows.

Whoever is making the negative comments...it is quite sad, esp when so many staff members work with both DCA and DCI corps as well as various MB.

But...that sort of thing has been going on for decades...even before DCI existed.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

As you aluded to in the final paragraph....the problem goes both ways. LOTS of DCA folks I know of over the years express nothing but contempt for DCI and DCI-style shows. You even see that attitude now here in DCP from some of the DCA forum comments. I saw one post talk about how some of the top DCA corps placed as high as they because they are doing "DCI" shows, as opposed to REAL DCA shows.

Whoever is making the negative comments...it is quite sad, esp when so many staff members work with both DCA and DCI corps as well as various MB.

But...that sort of thing has been going on for decades...even before DCI existed.

That's a great point. As long as there are so many old timers who constantly bash DCI and modern drum corps, what reason do any junior corps members or staff have to listen to them at all? There is so much "DCI is just band, Bb horn are terrbible, the shows are too esoteric, the uniforms are too cookie-cutter, back in my day..." nonsense being slung at junior corps. If that is the attitude of "real drum corps" I want nothing to do with it.