1972

[cabalumsw]

ok, so we have someone saying Cabs watered...who wasn;t in Cabs, and a member of cabs saying they didn't.

can anyone confirm?

Jeff: I marched with Cabs, was in Chicago, was in the drum line and there were no watered down parts. George Tuthill and Jack Pratt worked with all the sections. I was in the "tenor" (double conga section) and the only major change to the repertoire was replacing Siboney with Sabre Dance during the season. In fact, the drum book for Sabre Dance was more difficult than Siboney. I believe that change was made three weeks before Schenectady.

Look at the Prelim scores, there were no penalties there and we beat Sky by over a point.

The supposed source from our our drumline who mentioned the watered down parts was the same guy who was razzing Sky's drum line during retreat at Schenectady and was pulling people's chains with that story. If Mike wants to believe that, he is entitled to but I am just stating what I knew being a member of Cabs that year.

[MikeD]

Jeff: I marched with Cabs, was in Chicago, was in the drum line and there were no watered down parts. George Tuthill and Jack Pratt worked with all the sections. I was in the "tenor" (double conga section) and the only major change to the repertoire was replacing Siboney with Sabre Dance during the season. In fact, the drum book for Sabre Dance was more difficult than Siboney. I believe that change was made three weeks before Schenectady.

Didn't know Jack worked with Hawthorne...makes sense as he lived in the town!

He worked with me at the King's Regiment in 1977. I was the arranger and worked the timpani, mallets, and basses...Jack worked the snares and tenors.

[cabalumsw]

Jeff: I marched with Cabs, was in Chicago, was in the drum line and there were no watered down parts. George Tuthill and Jack Pratt worked with all the sections. I was in the "tenor" (double conga section) and the only major change to the repertoire was replacing Siboney with Sabre Dance during the season. In fact, the drum book for Sabre Dance was more difficult than Siboney. I believe that change was made three weeks before Schenectady.

Look at the Prelim scores, there were no penalties there and we beat Sky by over a point.

The supposed source from our our drumline who mentioned the watered down parts was the same guy who was razzing Sky's drum line during retreat at Schenectady and was pulling people's chains with that story. If Mike wants to believe that, he is entitled to but I am just stating what I knew being a member of Cabs that year.

Mike: Jack Pratt came to Hawthorne after the 1971 season. In fact, he wrote the last drum solo in 1972 which is still played by the Alumni corps. He stayed with Hawthorne through the 70s. He was a very unique character.

I believe I once spoke to you regarding Art Bouvier and Al Nichols, two of several Garfield Cadets who came to Hawthorne after the 1971 season.

[MikeD]

Mike: Jack Pratt came to Hawthorne after the 1971 season. In fact, he wrote the last drum solo in 1972 which is still played by the Alumni corps. He stayed with Hawthorne through the 70s. He was a very unique character.

I believe I once spoke to you regarding Art Bouvier and Al Nichols, two of several Garfield Cadets who came to Hawthorne after the 1971 season.

Yep...I think Artie may have come over after 70, but I'm not sure. Al was definitely one of those who came over when Garfield let George go after the 71 season.

Artie and I marched in two corps together....Garfield and before that the Imperial Guardsmen from Livingston. Two of his sisters marched in the Guardsmen as well.

"Character" describes Jack very well! At one Garden State show we were at a brand new judge (still judges percussion in DCI I think) was judging his first contest ever. Well, on a 12 point execution sheet he gave 6 of 7 corps a 9.8 or something (definitely all the same score) and one an 11 (Bengal Lancers). We were usually around the 6'ish level and the rest spread between 4 and 7'ish....

At the critique Jack walked up to the judge...tore his sheet into little teeny pieces and threw it at him...and then stalked out the door.

At the time...Jack had an amazing collection of classical music recordings. If you asked for Dvorak's "New World" for example he'd ask you which orchestra and which conductor. He must have had a few thousand albums.

Jack had/s a love of comic books as well. He was collecting early editions long before it became trendy...his collection must be worth a fortune!

I was told that his master's thesis was on the effect of comic books and the war effort in WWII...don't know if that was true.

He taught English in the Hackensack school system for years.

[cabalumsw]

Yep...I think Artie may have come over after 70, but I'm not sure. Al was definitely one of those who came over when Garfield let George go after the 71 season.

Artie and I marched in two corps together....Garfield and before that the Imperial Guardsmen from Livingston. Two of his sisters marched in the Guardsmen as well.

"Character" describes Jack very well! At one Garden State show we were at a brand new judge (still judges percussion in DCI I think) was judging his first contest ever. Well, on a 12 point execution sheet he gave 6 of 7 corps a 9.8 or something (definitely all the same score) and one an 11 (Bengal Lancers). We were usually around the 6'ish level and the rest spread between 4 and 7'ish....

At the critique Jack walked up to the judge...tore his sheet into little teeny pieces and threw it at him...and then stalked out the door.

At the time...Jack had an amazing collection of classical music recordings. If you asked for Dvorak's "New World" for example he'd ask you which orchestra and which conductor. He must have had a few thousand albums.

Jack had/s a love of comic books as well. He was collecting early editions long before it became trendy...his collection must be worth a fortune!

I was told that his master's thesis was on the effect of comic books and the war effort in WWII...don't know if that was true.

He taught English in the Hackensack school system for years.

Mike: Yes he was an English teacher now that you mention it. I remember him working on his thesis on one of our lengthy bus rides. I also remember him reading some heavy literary works as well.

Artie and Al came to Hawthorne the same time prior to the 1972 season.

[cabalumsw]

The Cabs that year were finishing down in the standings for most of the year. The closest they came to winning a show before Schenectady was the AL Nats I believe where they were slimly beaten by Rochester Crusaders. It was during their Chicago tour that the Cabs watered down their drum show. During the entire year their drum book was a VERY difficult one and they didn't have the horses the execute such a demanding book. As well, all year long they were receiving top GE drum marks which such a demanding drum book could very well call for and if it were executed properly they would have been receiving top overall drum marks all year and finishing higher in the standings all year long. When they got to Schenectady and performed with their watered down drum book their execution drum mark was raised substantially but with the watered down drum book their GE drum mark should have gone down as their "new" drum book didn't deserve the same GE marks that it had been getting earlier that year. All that the GE drum judge knew is that they had been getting high GE drum marks all year long and gave them the same GE marks for the Schenectady show. Thus is how the (once again) drum judging was crucial in the defeat of a GREAT Skyliner Drum Corps. The watering down of a show is a tactic that has been used for decades. If you write a book that is above the heads of the talent you have and you want to win, you've got to do something that will be in your best interest to win, and that is what occurred.

As for what occurred at DCA Finals that year is another story entirely. To me it is without a doubt one of the most disgraceful exhibitions of judging that I personally have ever witnessed first hand in all of Drum Corps. Because of the outcome of that show one judge was banned from ever judging in DCA again. Whether he was ever reinstated I'm really not sure. But because he chose to sue DCA (meaning ALL of the member Corps of DCA) because he was removed from judging he also lost his job as drill instructor of (what was to become) one of the very best Junior Corps ever to perform in the history of Drum Corps. Why? Because other instructors in this Junior Corps were also instructors of some of the member DCA Corps that were being sued. These other instructors informed the "powers that be" in this Junior Corps that they would have to quit if this judge was not fired. This particular judge "technically" did nothing illegal per se, it just caught the eye of someone from one of the other competing Corps and was reported to "whoever". The next thing you know, anywhere from 10 to 20 seconds of "time in motion" came up missing from the Skyliners performance (which they had been getting all year long) thanks to the judge on "timing and penalties", one Mr. Kammerer of "Garfield Cadet" fame. There are any number of ways that the "timing and penalties" judge could have (and did) affect the outcome of that show. When the gun sounds the judge can hold back actually starting the stopwatch for as long as he likes, OR stop the stopwatch well BEFORE he fires the gun signalling when the Corps crosses the finish line (remember THOSE days?).

Bottom line, if the first judge hadn't "acted within the boundaries of his capacity as a field execution M&M judge" which obviously upset someone from another competing Corps then in all likelihood the Skyliners would have won that show. AND if the GE drum judges up in Schenectady giving the Cabs an adjusted score, based on the drum book they used the Skyliners would have gone undefeated in 1972.

I have collaborated with some of my Caballero bretheren and they wanted me to mention 1971. They want to know why you don't mention 1971 and the judging discrepancy that cost the Caballeros the 71 Championship. Joe Morello and the other drum judge were close on all the other corps except the Caballeros, where there was a wide gap between the two. Hmm, something smelled rotten.

1975? One tenth difference but no way Sky should have won that show. I assume the pummeling we heaped on you in 73 and 74 was too much.

[cabalumsw]

I have collaborated with some of my Caballero bretheren and they wanted me to mention 1971. They want to know why you don't mention 1971 and the judging discrepancy that cost the Caballeros the 71 Championship. Joe Morello and the other drum judge were close on all the other corps except the Caballeros, where there was a wide gap between the two. Hmm, something smelled rotten.

1975? One tenth difference but no way Sky should have won that show. I assume the pummeling we heaped on you in 73 and 74 was too much.

But you know what? It's all in the past and it's over. It's fun to debate it and also to be able to write about those times because they were truly memorable and I would never trade the era of drum corps that I marched in with another. The rivalries were intense and made it that much fun. .

[Jeff Ream]

I have collaborated with some of my Caballero bretheren and they wanted me to mention 1971. They want to know why you don't mention 1971 and the judging discrepancy that cost the Caballeros the 71 Championship. Joe Morello and the other drum judge were close on all the other corps except the Caballeros, where there was a wide gap between the two. Hmm, something smelled rotten.

1975? One tenth difference but no way Sky should have won that show. I assume the pummeling we heaped on you in 73 and 74 was too much.

that left a mark

[Geneva]

...I was 14 years old that year..... had great seats for Finals at Roosevelt Stadium.... and I watched in awe that night as corps after corps basically blew the stands down. Especially the top five...Cabs, Sky, Buccaneers, Hurricanes and Rochester Crusaders......wow! Also that night, the Matadors made their first-ever appearance in DCA Finals.

Easily one of the best DCA championships ever, IMO.

Fran

Fran, I was there, too and couldn't agree more. The top five were red-hot! Growing up in the Rochester area, I was disappointed at the fourth place tie of the Crusaders, but the other corps were so good I could accept it. I felt that year the Crusaders had one of the best execution horn lines which I have ever heard.

[Storkysr]

Fran, I was there, too and couldn't agree more. The top five were red-hot! Growing up in the Rochester area, I was disappointed at the fourth place tie of the Crusaders, but the other corps were so good I could accept it. I felt that year the Crusaders had one of the best execution horn lines which I have ever heard.

Drums weren't too shabby either!