1972

[dukecornwell]

How about all of us who actually performed at the '72 Championship, get together and have ONE #### of a Party in Rochester next year? Count me in!

[Fran Haring]

Not the same. If the Mets won the series on a very bad ump call, I would agree. Unfortunately, the corps mentioned had nothing to do with the out-come. It was a bad call by one or two judges, depending on what you read.

I thought I was over this..Maybe not.

Wait a minute.

The most important thing about that 1986 World Series is that the METS won and the Red Sox didn't. :P

Fran

[audiodb]

.....I don't know.... Brigs had gone almost 5 complete years undefeated, before Cabs edged us out at the Hurc's show the week before Finals.

Well, yes, that is unique. But so was the 1972 situation.

Consider that the 2003 Cabs were nearly undefeated themselves - the three-tenth loss to Brigs on August 2nd being their only defeat. In contrast, the 1972 Cabs were consistently trailing several corps for over two months, and thus really made a move in August.

[Diceman]

Well, yes, that is unique. But so was the 1972 situation.

Consider that the 2003 Cabs were nearly undefeated themselves - the three-tenth loss to Brigs on August 2nd being their only defeat. In contrast, the 1972 Cabs were consistently trailing several corps for over two months, and thus really made a move in August.

Here are some scores from the 1972 season:

June 3, 1972

Hamden, Connecticut

1 New York Skyliners 82.30

2 Yankee Rebels 82.10

3 Reading Buccaneers 81.40

4 Hawthorne Caballeros 78.95

5 Les Diplomates 75.00

June 10, 1972

Stratford, Connecticut

1 New York Skyliners 86.65

2 Hawthorne Caballeros 83.85

3 Hamburg Kingsmen 66.90

4 Sunrisers 66.10

5 New Bedford Whalers 43.35

June 17, 1972

Syracuse, New York

1 Rochester Crusaders 83.90

2 Hawthorne Caballeros 80.05

3 Reading Buccaneers 79.20

4 Hamburg Kingsmen 68.10

5 Guelph Royalaires 62.15

June 24, 1972

Lynn, Massachusetts

1 New York Skyliners 87.05

2 Connecticut Hurricanes 84.45

3 Hawthorne Caballeros 83.10

4 Les Diplomates 76.60

5 Sunrisers 70.45

The Barnum Festival

July 1, 1972

Bridgeport, Connecticut

1 New York Skyliners 85.65

2 Connecticut Hurricanes 81.65

3 Yankee Rebels 81.50

4 Hawthorne Caballeros 78.90

5 Les Diplomates 73.55

They were consistently points out of it, even later on:

August 13, 1972

Jersey City, New Jersey

1 New York Skyliners 92.25

2 Connecticut Hurricanes 89.10

3 Hawthorne Caballeros 88.30

4 Reading Buccaneers 87.80

5 Les Diplomates 83.55

6 Sunrisers 77.60

Then, after losing to Cru at ALs, they turned it on:

August 26, 1972

Schenectady, New York

1 Hawthorne Caballeros 91.00

2 New York Skyliners 90.07

3 Rochester Crusaders 89.45

4 Connecticut Hurricanes 88.95

5 Les Diplomates 81.01

Quite a difference...

IMO, it can either be attributed to

#1 They worked their butts off during the ALs - and found their focus

(Was there any change of staff or the Book?)

or

#2 The other corps peaked too soon

My bet's on #1...

[cabalumsw]

Here are some scores from the 1972 season:

June 3, 1972

Hamden, Connecticut

1 New York Skyliners 82.30

2 Yankee Rebels 82.10

3 Reading Buccaneers 81.40

4 Hawthorne Caballeros 78.95

5 Les Diplomates 75.00

June 10, 1972

Stratford, Connecticut

1 New York Skyliners 86.65

2 Hawthorne Caballeros 83.85

3 Hamburg Kingsmen 66.90

4 Sunrisers 66.10

5 New Bedford Whalers 43.35

June 17, 1972

Syracuse, New York

1 Rochester Crusaders 83.90

2 Hawthorne Caballeros 80.05

3 Reading Buccaneers 79.20

4 Hamburg Kingsmen 68.10

5 Guelph Royalaires 62.15

June 24, 1972

Lynn, Massachusetts

1 New York Skyliners 87.05

2 Connecticut Hurricanes 84.45

3 Hawthorne Caballeros 83.10

4 Les Diplomates 76.60

5 Sunrisers 70.45

The Barnum Festival

July 1, 1972

Bridgeport, Connecticut

1 New York Skyliners 85.65

2 Connecticut Hurricanes 81.65

3 Yankee Rebels 81.50

4 Hawthorne Caballeros 78.90

5 Les Diplomates 73.55

They were consistently points out of it, even later on:

August 13, 1972

Jersey City, New Jersey

1 New York Skyliners 92.25

2 Connecticut Hurricanes 89.10

3 Hawthorne Caballeros 88.30

4 Reading Buccaneers 87.80

5 Les Diplomates 83.55

6 Sunrisers 77.60

Then, after losing to Cru at ALs, they turned it on:

August 26, 1972

Schenectady, New York

1 Hawthorne Caballeros 91.00

2 New York Skyliners 90.07

3 Rochester Crusaders 89.45

4 Connecticut Hurricanes 88.95

5 Les Diplomates 81.01

Quite a difference...

IMO, it can either be attributed to

#1 They worked their butts off during the ALs - and found their focus

(Was there any change of staff or the Book?)

or

#2 The other corps peaked too soon

My bet's on #1...

Ron: You are correct. Jimmy Costello made Nationals a camp for DCA Championships. There was no watering down of the book or staff changes. We worked our collective butts off.

[NYSkyliner]

Ron: You are correct. Jimmy Costello made Nationals a camp for DCA Championships. There was no watering down of the book or staff changes. We worked our collective butts off.

La caca del toro. The ONLY thing you worked your butts off was changing the book.

[Jeff Ream]

oh good lord, here we go again :P

[cabalumsw]

La caca del toro. The ONLY thing you worked your butts off was changing the book.

1972 DCA Championships

September 3 - Roosevelt Stadium - Jersey City, New Jersey

1 Hawthorne Caballeros 90.60

2 New York Skyliners (1.0 Pen.) 89.75

3 Reading Buccaneers 88.65

4 Tie - Rochester Crusaders 88.20

4 Tie - Connecticut Hurricanes 88.20

6 Les Diplomates 82.35

7 Yankee Rebels 80.45

8 Long Island Sunrisers 76.00

9 Hamburg Kingsmen 74.30

10 Pittsburgh Rockets 73.90

11 Burlington Commanders 63.15

12 Rhode Island Matadors 58.95

Prelims

1 Hawthorne Caballeros 91.25

2 Reading Buccaneers (Tie) 89.90

2 New York Skyliners (Tie) 89.90

4 Rochester Crusaders 88.05

5 Connecticut Hurricanes 87.70

6 Yankee Rebels 85.20

7 Les Diplomates 84.55

8 Hamburg Kingsmen 79.90

9 Sunrisers 78.75

10 Pittsburgh Rockets 76.05

11 Burlington Commanders 71.10

12 Rhode Island Matadors 70.15

13 New Bedford Whalers 63.80

14 Bonnie Scots 61.45

15 Boston Renegades 59.75

[NYSkyliner]

The Cabs that year were finishing down in the standings for most of the year. The closest they came to winning a show before Schenectady was the AL Nats I believe where they were slimly beaten by Rochester Crusaders. It was during their Chicago tour that the Cabs watered down their drum show. During the entire year their drum book was a VERY difficult one and they didn't have the horses the execute such a demanding book. As well, all year long they were receiving top GE drum marks which such a demanding drum book could very well call for and if it were executed properly they would have been receiving top overall drum marks all year and finishing higher in the standings all year long. When they got to Schenectady and performed with their watered down drum book their execution drum mark was raised substantially but with the watered down drum book their GE drum mark should have gone down as their "new" drum book didn't deserve the same GE marks that it had been getting earlier that year. All that the GE drum judge knew is that they had been getting high GE drum marks all year long and gave them the same GE marks for the Schenectady show. Thus is how the (once again) drum judging was crucial in the defeat of a GREAT Skyliner Drum Corps. The watering down of a show is a tactic that has been used for decades. If you write a book that is above the heads of the talent you have and you want to win, you've got to do something that will be in your best interest to win, and that is what occurred.

As for what occurred at DCA Finals that year is another story entirely. To me it is without a doubt one of the most disgraceful exhibitions of judging that I personally have ever witnessed first hand in all of Drum Corps. Because of the outcome of that show one judge was banned from ever judging in DCA again. Whether he was ever reinstated I'm really not sure. But because he chose to sue DCA (meaning ALL of the member Corps of DCA) because he was removed from judging he also lost his job as drill instructor of (what was to become) one of the very best Junior Corps ever to perform in the history of Drum Corps. Why? Because other instructors in this Junior Corps were also instructors of some of the member DCA Corps that were being sued. These other instructors informed the "powers that be" in this Junior Corps that they would have to quit if this judge was not fired. This particular judge "technically" did nothing illegal per se, it just caught the eye of someone from one of the other competing Corps and was reported to "whoever". The next thing you know, anywhere from 10 to 20 seconds of "time in motion" came up missing from the Skyliners performance (which they had been getting all year long) thanks to the judge on "timing and penalties", one Mr. Kammerer of "Garfield Cadet" fame. There are any number of ways that the "timing and penalties" judge could have (and did) affect the outcome of that show. When the gun sounds the judge can hold back actually starting the stopwatch for as long as he likes, OR stop the stopwatch well BEFORE he fires the gun signalling when the Corps crosses the finish line (remember THOSE days?).

Bottom line, if the first judge hadn't "acted within the boundaries of his capacity as a field execution M&M judge" which obviously upset someone from another competing Corps then in all likelihood the Skyliners would have won that show. AND if the GE drum judges up in Schenectady giving the Cabs an adjusted score, based on the drum book they used the Skyliners would have gone undefeated in 1972.

[Jeff Ream]

ok, so we have someone saying Cabs watered...who wasn;t in Cabs, and a member of cabs saying they didn't.

can anyone confirm?