Medeabrass Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 (edited) Does J.D. Shaw arrange? A lot of the time sounds like he's taking the brass parts off the original score, changing the soprano parts to Trumpet. He might win best Drum Corps Transcriber. I think maybe we're getting into semantics here and I somewhat agree with you after the switch to legit Bb horns. Part of the thing that always impressed me about Jim Prime was how much his arrangements held true to the original even though we were playing 2 valved G bugles. I guess it's that much more impressive to me when I think about the limitations he was dealing with. Even with Bb's though, I'm more impressed with someone who can "transcribe" parts from a full symphony to a brass ensemble while being able to achieve the character and intention of the original composer. It seems to me that a lot of arrangers are more like composers in that they write their own music with some flavors of another person's composition thrown in...ie the "inspired by" themes we've seen recently. I'm not criticizing it. What you call transcribing is arranging to me and what you call arranging is closer to composing to me...semantics. Edited April 19, 2007 by Medeabrass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePaula Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I'm not trying to knock any of the other guys out there, because everyone mentioned is extremely talented, but in my opinion, no current arranger out there does it like Jay Bocook. Listen to his shows...especially recently...there will be at least 4 crazy lines going on at once but they all make sense with each other. And the way Tom Aungst writes...you hear the horn parts in the drum parts. Add in Neil and they've got quite the package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve709 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 (edited) I think maybe we're getting into semantics here and I somewhat agree with you after the switch to legit Bb horns. Part of the thing that always impressed me about Jim Prime was how much his arrangements held true to the original even though we were playing 2 valved G bugles. I guess it's that much more impressive to me when I think about the limitations he was dealing with. Even with Bb's though, I'm more impressed with someone who can "transcribe" parts from a full symphony to a brass ensemble while being able to achieve the character and intention of the original composer. It seems to me that a lot of arrangers are more like composers in that they write their own music with some flavors of another person's composition thrown in...ie the "inspired by" themes we've seen recently. I'm not criticizing it. What you call transcribing is arranging to me and what you call arranging is closer to composing to me...semantics. I agree that keeping to the original is a key aspect of musicality that an arranger holds responsibility of, BUT, to call yourself an arranger over a transcriber, you have to actually arrange it in a different mean that it was originally in, (i.e. Bocock, Jim Wren). I can take Phantoms opener from '03 and "arrange" that like a pro, but my composition professors might just call that transcribing. No disrespect to anybody, if I'm transcribing for a top 3 group for two years in a row, I might just stick to my system as well, just might not call myself an arranger. J.D. Shaw is a very smart man, and will continue to have success with his groups that he works with, but I'm just saying, it's one thing to take a score and copy it with Brass, and it's another to do what Bocock(sp?) and other do, not that one is right or wrong, but maybe they should be in different categories. Edited April 19, 2007 by Steve709 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRyder_FMM Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I think maybe we're getting into semantics here and I somewhat agree with you after the switch to legit Bb horns. Part of the thing that always impressed me about Jim Prime was how much his arrangements held true to the original even though we were playing 2 valved G bugles. I guess it's that much more impressive to me when I think about the limitations he was dealing with. Even with Bb's though, I'm more impressed with someone who can "transcribe" parts from a full symphony to a brass ensemble while being able to achieve the character and intention of the original composer. It seems to me that a lot of arrangers are more like composers in that they write their own music with some flavors of another person's composition thrown in...ie the "inspired by" themes we've seen recently. I'm not criticizing it. What you call transcribing is arranging to me and what you call arranging is closer to composing to me...semantics. I have to agree with you here. Personally, I think JD Shaw does an outstanding job arranging for Phantom. I do not think he is transcribing at all. Take last year's opener as an example. I'd hardly call his arrangement of Sythian Suite a transcription. It holds true to the original source material, but it does deviate a good deal as well. He captures the musical elements of the entire work in the brass ensemble (duh, he has to, that's all that's allowed). Unlike many other of today's arrangers, JD Shaw and Michael Klesh (even Robert Smith) stay true to the music they are arranging. Many of the other arrangers out there are essentially composing with lose interpretations of the work their compositions are based on. Personally, I can't stand Bococks more recent "arrangements" for that very reason. I'd much rather listen to a line arranged by Shaw, Klesh, Smith, Prime, etc. I would love to see Wayne Downy do more arranging for other corps. I have found his arrangmenets at BD a little stale lately. How many more years do we have to suffer through the same 5/4 chord progression (you know the one - daaah daaah, dat dat)? His arrangements for Magic a few years ago were awesome. Also, I found the Tchaikovsky portions of their 98 show very well done. I'd love to see him arrange more all classical shows or shows based on wind ensemble literature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom&Phitch Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 agreed. The stuff that Saucedo, Bocock, and Thrower does is light years ahead of Shaw for that exact reason. Or could it be that that is the way regiment works? even with wren it was the same way... last time i checked, their music arranging has been fine, and not light years behind Cavies, Cadets, or BDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sopchick_01 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Surprisingly, I'll go with Phantom. :P The blending of An American in Paris and Rhapsody in Blue in 2005, for example, was absolutely masterful work. I have to agree with you here and thus have voted for Phantom. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 How can you not mention 1999's City of Angels? By far the best ballad ever performed in DCI. Ever. That's cool you think that. I was a great ballad and I loved to perform it. But Canterbury Chorale...I mean just listen to it. How it retards at the end of almost every measure and lets you feel each note. Then the part before the climax..I could just feel that brass sound...oh and then the climax...I can feel my heart just soar above the clouds...and then the final chord...absolutely beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPRfan Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I have to agree with you here. Personally, I think JD Shaw does an outstanding job arranging for Phantom. I do not think he is transcribing at all. Take last year's opener as an example. I'd hardly call his arrangement of Sythian Suite a transcription. It holds true to the original source material, but it does deviate a good deal as well. He captures the musical elements of the entire work in the brass ensemble (duh, he has to, that's all that's allowed). Unlike many other of today's arrangers, JD Shaw and Michael Klesh (even Robert Smith) stay true to the music they are arranging. Many of the other arrangers out there are essentially composing with lose interpretations of the work their compositions are based on. Personally, I can't stand Bococks more recent "arrangements" for that very reason. I'd much rather listen to a line arranged by Shaw, Klesh, Smith, Prime, etc. I would love to see Wayne Downy do more arranging for other corps. I have found his arrangmenets at BD a little stale lately. How many more years do we have to suffer through the same 5/4 chord progression (you know the one - daaah daaah, dat dat)? His arrangements for Magic a few years ago were awesome. Also, I found the Tchaikovsky portions of their 98 show very well done. I'd love to see him arrange more all classical shows or shows based on wind ensemble literature. w/Stp: w/Stp: w/Stp: My thoughts exactly. We all have different tastes. Personally, I love the melodic, authentic arranging we are hearing from Crown & Regiment. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newterak Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I'll need to check out some more original work but I"ve been impressed with jd shaws work as well as pr's productions as of late Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared_mello Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 That's cool you think that. I was a great ballad and I loved to perform it. But Canterbury Chorale...I mean just listen to it. How it retards at the end of almost every measure and lets you feel each note. Then the part before the climax..I could just feel that brass sound...oh and then the climax...I can feel my heart just soar above the clouds...and then the final chord...absolutely beautiful. yeah, seriously, that cadets '99 ballad was a great one. '98 was incredible as well, but '99 is definitely underappreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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