mistofflies Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I'm sure you're saying this in relation to that loudest hornline would be louder if they are in tune. However, why is the arguably most in-tune hornline, The Cavaliers, also arguably the softest? Yes, I know we've answered technically this question in regards to describing the brass staff approach. I'm just saying that the sheer volume output has a much larger effect on the physics than how in-tune it is. That's why SOME people argue that they prefer volume over tuning, is my guess. To them the drop in quality of volume is much more noticeable than a drop in how well the corps plays in-tune.Also, doesn't it seem boring to always be inside the box and not take any risk? I love reaching for quality, but how many professional players do you think got there with out taking risks in their own playing? That's why you practice. If you limit yourself to only what you can play with fantastic quality, how are you going to grow as a player? I think the approach The Cavaliers take with their brass is great and it works perfectly for them. I just look for that little bit of extra "expressiveness". That's just me and I know there is no right or wrong and that there are a lot of people on either side of the fence. Call me old fashioned...but can I have both? I will never forget the time I saw the Atlanta SO in concert on a high school band trip...granted it was indoors but they had 2....2 french horn players...and they were the loudest things I have ever heard on the face of this earth. Two of them, overpowering the ENTIRE symphony (they were playing some boisterous Beethoven piece, but I don't remember what it was as this was now 4 or so years ago). They were in tune, and just...####### loud. I think what a lot of people are talking about, however, is that they want to hear that "sizzle" in the sound which can be great but...when performers go for that they can also strain and learn a lot of bad performance habits that can take a long time to undo. So yeah, loud and sizzle and pizzazz can be great but at what cost? I mean, don't get me wrong, when a corps through it down on the field I will jump out of my seat just as fast as anyone else and scream my buttocks off....I can remember doing that during two particular Bluecoats moments when I saw them at finals in Orlando in 03...both were after silent guard features in the close, with the corps coming in at something like FFF, and the crowd (including me) went nuts. Oh and if you don't think the Cavaliers play loud, perhaps you didn't see them in 03? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fincis Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Call me old fashioned...but can I have both?I will never forget the time I saw the Atlanta SO in concert on a high school band trip...granted it was indoors but they had 2....2 french horn players...and they were the loudest things I have ever heard on the face of this earth. Two of them, overpowering the ENTIRE symphony (they were playing some boisterous Beethoven piece, but I don't remember what it was as this was now 4 or so years ago). They were in tune, and just...####### loud. I think what a lot of people are talking about, however, is that they want to hear that "sizzle" in the sound which can be great but...when performers go for that they can also strain and learn a lot of bad performance habits that can take a long time to undo. So yeah, loud and sizzle and pizzazz can be great but at what cost? I mean, don't get me wrong, when a corps through it down on the field I will jump out of my seat just as fast as anyone else and scream my buttocks off....I can remember doing that during two particular Bluecoats moments when I saw them at finals in Orlando in 03...both were after silent guard features in the close, with the corps coming in at something like FFF, and the crowd (including me) went nuts. Oh and if you don't think the Cavaliers play loud, perhaps you didn't see them in 03? :P Well put. Never said they didn't play loud, said they didn't play loud in comparison with other corps. I am skepticle though and I need to recheck out the shout section in 03. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl306 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 (edited) Didn't read every post. From memory (only going on shows I've seen live), some of my picks are: Magic 2003 (rarely see this show getting any praise on here) Phantom 2003 Cavies 2003 - end of the 3rd movement = Holy Bajesus (ironic since it's Easter today) SCV 2004 Phantom 2005 Bluecoats 2005 Edited April 9, 2007 by Carl306 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CroWnSoPrAnO Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 (edited) I loved Blue Devils this past year, especially at the end, and in the Georgia Dome! hmmmm! :P Edited April 9, 2007 by CroWnSoPrAnO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 The whole perfection thing is really just semantics . . . music can't ever be perfect, so why try to achieve perfection, or something, right? Whoah, that's deep. And pretty flawed, from a logical standpoint. Basically, The Cavaliers brass staff gives priority to quality, ensemble clarity, balance, individual and ensemble listening awareness, etc, over things like volume. It's not that they feel music shouldn't be expressive (that's ludiocrous), it's just that they stress fundamentals before they stress "expression", per se. The general idea is to build a foundation for creating sounds in an ensemble and then to pursue music and expression based on that foundation. They feel that pushing for too much of the musical aspects we generally associate with being "expressive" (like volume, for instance) prematurely , can lead to uncharacteristic sounds and ensemble issues because the members of the hornline don't yet have the fundamental foundation. Why this adversity to incorrect sounds and ensemble problems (like stick-outs)? Because, by definition, these are unmusical problems! Problems like this do nothing but distract from the music. This leads the staff to take what can be considered a slightly different route to music-making. Or something. Sorry for being so verbose. That, at the least, has been my understanding. Whether it's right or wrong is beside the point. It's what they like, it works for them, they've had success with it, and everyone's different. Woo-hoo. Happy Easter. I have been around a lot of different hornlines through the years. One thing that sticks out the most is that all of their staffs have a different twist on how they achieve excellence. The Cavaliers have certainlty carved out a nitch for themselves and have a unique approach (As do others) to producing a high quality sound. Personally....most of the time I prefer to hear a hornline push a little on the volume a bit. I love to hear a HUGE dynamic window. To often these days corps are playing in a very sterile 'controlled' fashion. This comes off as flat to me. It is a little silly (IMO) to have 60 + brass players and sound like 40. Anyway.....everyone has their opinions and there is nothing at all wrong with that....... Happy Easter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Don't expect a concert. I don't. I am just curious to see what their approach is to producing a big, full bright sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantgetenoughcorps Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Blue Devils 94-WOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Hornline warmups are boring in general I "Love" hornline warmups. As a brass player I have learned so much just by watching and listening to hornlines warmup. I also LOVE chord progressions. I have probably written 20 or so chord prog-warmups myself (Just doodling). It is so cool to stand closeup to a full hornline and be immersed in a sea of sound. Some corps have a very entertaining warmup routine and others are kind of dull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Far and away, the loudest corps I ever heard was 1998 Magic. It was to their detriment, but they could have shattered any glass near them.It's like saying who drives the golf ball farthest. Doesn't mean it's best. That hornline had AMAZING volume. What a full and strong sound.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsaeger Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 (edited) Phantom 2003 - right at the end they hold a note for 23 and a half counts that's pretty freakin loud Cadets 2001 - Moondance - when the horns stroll up to the front sideline - it's pretty freakin loud Madison 1995 - Malaga - what is it, the best Madison show never to win finals?! I think the crowd had something to do with the noise. BAC - 2000 - the closer was pretty freakin loud to me. SCV 2004 - Scheherazade - right at the end of the closer - massive blasts that shake me to the core. SCV 2000 - Adagio - probably THE LOUDEST moment in drum corps ever. I think it was their last year in "G" BD 2000 - North by Northwest - right at the end they hit a cord that makes me think that anything that wasn't nailed down in the stadium would have been blown away. BD 1993 - Phenomenon of Cool - similar cord in the closer BD 1996 - Part Blue - another similar (is it dissonisant?) cord and it just goes to show you that it doesn't have to be THE LOUDEST, but the best placed. I'm sure there is more. 1980 for instance? Later... Edited April 9, 2007 by dsaeger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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