Disrespect Between Members of Different Eras

[Martybucs]

One example of two of the top shows of 1971....

GE at the World Open was 30 points...at VFW Nats it was only given 10...plus there was that silly "Cadence" caption.

Hmmm. I competed World Open that year, but I don't remember the point allotments per caption. The cadence caption had it's place because of the military origins of the activity. It was more about military style and precision then.

No doubt DCI unleashed unprecedented performance potential. The shows since have been spectacular. I just think DCI left a wake of destruction in pursuit of personal gain. Could've been done better.

Kind of off topic, but pertinent if you consider that some of the feelings of the "old guys" that lead to the disrespectful comments from both sides is due to DCI's abandonment of many of the hallmarks of more traditional style corps that were held near and dear to their hearts. Those hallmarks defined drum and bugle corps for them and myself. DCI kind of homogenized the product and although from a performance standpoint the shows are way more entertaining for most, the lines between band and drum corps have been blurred. That upsets some people, but it is not the fault of the performers and there is never any occasion where they should be insulted and belittled for the unbelievable shows they perform.

When I think of drum and bugle corps, the first thing that comes to mind is what I did when I was on the field and if it wasn't that, then to me, it wasn't drum and bugle corps. I've come to the understanding that I was wrong in that perception. It is the essence drum corps, just not drum corps as I marched it.

Admitting that to myself has freed me to enjoy and appreciate what is offered now. I still miss the late '70s early '80s style of shows mostly, but if I pine for that forsaking everything else, I miss out. No one else cares whether I come to a show or not.

How can you look at a DCI show and not appreciate it? You'll probably like one type of music more than another, but what's not to like? It's not the same as old school drum corps, but again, what's not to like?

[scottgordon]

ONLY in drum corps can you find poems degrading the current era of said activity.

Not true. I'm involved in another niche activity - table tennis. There is an almost identical level of trashing of people of different eras (the sport has evolved considerably over the years, similarly to drumcorps, for better or worse). One particularly well-known internet personality has posted dozens of poems over the years, targetting the modern game.

[RCFKING]

Lance,

I can tell by the number of posts that you have done that you know drum corps. I guess my word bando is out of line. It's not that I don't like, or appreciate the new style / new era drum corps. I'm sure these people work as hard if not harder than anyone ever did. But you must be careful, everything is relative to it's time.

I hear some being selfish and I feel that I can do the same to justify my generation.

So Lance, what generation and organization did you march with?

RF

[Lance]

RCFKING, I didn't march corps, unfortunately, though I hope to march senior corps when I get near one. :) I was a woodwind in a Marine field band, but I can play Euph...enough to where if I practice I'll be able to get a spot, anyway.

Thanks for your explanation, and I'll tone it down, too. I don't think that it's very fair to say that all of today's kids don't care about drum corps of the past or are disrespectful of it. Sure, it's out there, but it's not the norm from what I can tell. It's also not the norm for people who marched in the past to diss everything about today's drum corps. I know that. I think we all do. It's just an emotional subject for all who are close to it, I guess.

[Medeabrass]

You don't know squat what you're babbling about, boy, when you talk about the Golden Age of Drum Corps. But that's okay; the babbler before you didn't, either. Not too many of you Spandexed whippersnappers do, by cracky.

If you really want to know why the D&BC vets look down on your new-school fancypants prance-athons, it's because you "reinvented" what was working just fine. Starting in 1970, the revisionists worked their way in to take over a huge and nationally popular, well-run and rapidly-growing activity with thousands of people in hundreds of great corps and in hundreds more of almost-great corps on their way to greatness, and discouraged raw beginners and made it impossible to afford belonging to and then pretended they were the New York Philharmonic with a Broadway chorus-boy line, and made the brave remaining members who still didstick around in their "all-new never-better total-program" activity slink around the field like Groucho Marx on Castoria while playing Shostakovich backwards, just to prove to somebody-or-other that they could. Our formerly-macho activity was castrated by the girly-boys and the image went from Terminator to Richard Simmons, and now the activity is knee-deep in the Big Muddy, and the big fools say to push on, and there's lots more along those lines, but you get the picture. By cracky.

You forgot your [/sarcasm on] [/sarcasm off]...and if you meant what you said, thank you for providing an example of the elitists amongst your generation. Can you honestly tell me that the old schoolers from the 30s and 40s loved what you were doing? If there were forums like this, would there be vets from their generation criticizing "YOUR" version of drum corps in a condescending fashion? Somehow, I find that hard to believe that they weren't especially after reading posts from other old schoolers who confirmed the complaints.

If drum corps was doing so well back then, why didn't the VFW and others continue to support DC to this day? Why did almost all of the drum corps in those circuits choose to migrate to DCI? I really don't know and would like to know if it's possible for you to do so without flaming or being condescending. I've marched in a strict military organization as well as drum corps so I understand some of what you're saying, but the way you package it isn't going change my mind if that's even your goal.

[Medeabrass]

I'm surprised it took 3 days and 130ish posts before the crap started. We had a nice thread going that showed some commonality and had slight progress toward understanding and genuine respect ....... and now this. I'm 36 years of age ... I would have aged out 15 years ago had I marched my last 2 years. I hardly feel like a whipper snapper .... but I can hardly imagine someone my fathers age showing such a lack of wisdom in such a public fashion.

Weren't folks who were born in the 40's-50's taught and raised with the values of Honor, Respect and Humbility? And aren't those the things you prided yourselves on when you marched? I believe the answers should be YES ... in fact I KNOW.

Super, maybe I misunderstood your post endorsing Hup with a "Thankyou..." I'm not trying to start anything but am just trying to clarify. Were you not seconding his obtuse statements?

[JimF-LowBari]

I have not experienced anything like this. Indeed, I have been treated with nothing but respect from people of all eras of Drum Corps, and I am simply amazed at the skill level of the kids today.

Having gotten back into the activity this year, I have found it to be quite a bit different than it was 30+ years ago. My corps-mates have been nothing but supportive to me as I try to figure out how to fit in.

Every young person that I've met in drum corps has been very kind to me when I mention that I did drum corps many years ago. The ones that I have been lucky enough to meet have seen it as an instant bond between us, even if I come from a different era.

I am sorry to hear that you have had a bad experience with this, but this has not happened to me.

Ooops, should have mentioned that all flaming I've seen and/or received has been on RAMD or DCP. The few times I've been around current DCI members in person has been a good experience. And of all corps it has been Cadets I've have bumped into and talked to for a few seconds. First I get the "wow look at that guy with a bari" look as a 5' 6", pudgy, balding, bearded Bari is not something they normally see. Soon as I ask "How you guys doing" the smiles kick in. And have heard thru the grapevine some good comments directed towards my Alumni corps from some of the DCI folks.

[JimF-LowBari]

Well, seeing as how this thread has already gone down the drain, I might as well add some more fuel to the fire.

I really don't enjoy watching 70's drum corps. It's really, really awesome to listen to, but I just can't stand watching it.

Yeah, you can only do so much with bending straight lines around and hauling ### to the stands playing full bore. :P (Before anyone flames, check my sig)

LMAO as I've already admitted to walking away for 10 years cause I got bored off my butt watching a DCI show in 1992 or 1993. And shows with amps/vocals leave me cold. *shrug* Different strokes for different folks.

Edited May 14, 2007 by JimF-3rdBari

[Medeabrass]

Hmmm. I competed World Open that year, but I don't remember the point allotments per caption. The cadence caption had it's place because of the military origins of the activity. It was more about military style and precision then.

Marty, I marched in one if not the only college military marching band in the country and I'm sorry, but what drum corps were doing in the 70's was not military as I know it. To me, if you're facing the stands and doing arcs, it's not military. If you're not doing counter marches and facing end zones, it's not military. We didn't do high mark time or low mark time either.

I definitely understand and appreciate how the military influence was respected more back then. Turns and manuevers were much more precise and "snappy" for lack of a better word. This is one of the things that I love about older shows and wish had stuck around more. Even though I marched a DC with a corps that was too "hyper" with the dancing, I don't care for it much myself but can take it in small doses. It (dancing) doesn't add much to the show for me. I think you could remove it from any show that I like and my enjoyment of the show would be the same (if not more).

Kind of off topic, but pertinent if you consider that some of the feelings of the "old guys" that lead to the disrespectful comments from both sides is due to DCI's abandonment of many of the hallmarks of more traditional style corps that were held near and dear to their hearts. Those hallmarks defined drum and bugle corps for them and myself. DCI kind of homogenized the product and although from a performance standpoint the shows are way more entertaining for most, the lines between band and drum corps have been blurred.

Good point...Sometimes I have nightmares that my college band decided not to be military anymore. I can empathize with your feelings of abanment for sure. I would be sooo disappointed if I went back and saw my band doing even a 1970's style DC show...to that organization, that would be called "new army" ie new school :).

The thing I disagree with in your post is the belief that DC and band are homogenized today. When I look at the 70's DC shows it reminds me of exactly what my highschool band was doing at the time...high mark time, squads, swinging gates, straight lines, popping turns no pit etc. My band continued this style until I was in highschool in the 80's. The first time I saw drum corps in '90, it was novel and different from band for me because they did NOT do most of these things and because they moved. I just don't buy that DC and band are more similar now. Bands have always been copying DC. For me, the chief difference has always been the level of performance.

Edited May 14, 2007 by Medeabrass

[apoch003]

Fuel to the fire...

Doesn't anyone worry that in another 20 years there will only be 12 corps left to compete for the top 12?

Ticket prices alone to make up for that will be in the thousands!