wesleyrp Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Didn't read any farther, Wes, before I want to remind you that, for example, 'Coats snare line of nine players has eight that are 1st year vets at 'Coats. Retention? These are mostly center (or close) snare players from many top-12 corps. Is that to suggest those eight other corps are not good at retention? Maybe "the vibe" is better <over there> than the winning but otherwise just OK "experience"? (Now I'll read the rest of your, I'm sure, excellent post.) There's one difference to what you and I are speaking of.... Bluecoats have had numerous 6 place finishes and two top 3 finishes. But, when the Bluecoats were 7-10 place back when I marched they weren't attracting top tier talent from other corps. That's the main difference. If you're a corps that is top 12 or lower u work to keep what you have- grow the talent. I've recruited BK a ton over the years since 2002/03 and so many years the average age of the corps was 17-18. In the run they made to 06-07 they kept that talent and it showed in placement. It's truly tough to be a consistent finalist year in and out because no matter how you try, members use those corps at times to be stepping stones. That's something that can rectified with great designs and continued belief and commitment from members of those finalist corps. Crown and Coats didn't always have kids flock to them from other corps... At the point that they started running up to the top 6 that changed. Before that.... Great staff/retention of members and fantastic design and staff direction. Thanks for the info and kind words about BK. exciting to hear that:) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) All the top 3-4 Corps have had pretty much the same staff designing the shows, teaching the MM's for years. Until these guys die, retire, or go to some other Corps, they will position their Corps to win it all every year. And like lemmings, the pilgrimmage to these Mecca's will take on a religious fervor on the part of the winter True Believers to secure an open position. Phantom Regiment, a wonderfully entertaining Corps this season, could have an All Star cast of superior brass, percussionists, guard this season... and they would still not medal.. No matter how well executed the show becomes. If the judges don't like your Show Design, it won't matter, You'll be SOOL for the entire new season before Memorial Day, let alone for the August Championships. Edited July 30, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) You have to have the talent to play and march what BD, Crown, Cadets, Bluecoats do. Easier said than done. They [bK for now] need championship design (and they are very close to that). They need brass, drums, and guard that can challenge for a top 3 or top 4 spot on any given night. And as much as anything...they have to hit the ground running much faster at the onset of the season. Look at how good Cadets, Coats, Crown, and BD start the season. Even if those corps only have temporary closers in, they are often polished enough to come out in mid June scoring in the 68, 69 range, if not low 70s. Using Cadets as an example (only because we were all privy to their camp audio and video), look at how far along they were come January and February. In my opinion, this is one of the main differences. SCV always seems to have great shows, but in recent years they just seem to come out 2 to 3 points behind BD. They then spend the rest of the summer playing catch-up. It's fun to watch over the course of the summer, but how often has it produced a win as we get closer to Finals? People might cite that Bluecoats rose to 2nd place last year, but Blooo came out strong from the get-go. Come mid season they were running 3rd until the end of the summer, then nabbed Cadets on Finals night. Not unexpected at all. Almost everyone saw that coming. You have to start fast and finish strong! Few do it. Edited July 30, 2015 by jwillis35 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Top contending Corps tend to have more college age marchers than lower placing Corps. Colleges get out earlier than the High Schools. This is a very big deal too. If your Corps has too many H.S. aged marchers, you really have no shot, no matter how talented they are.. Some of these upper tier Corps are out practicing on their practice fields their demanding shows with 85-95% participation rates, while other lower tier Corps simultaneously have too many of their young marchers at that very moment dissecting frogs in their H.S. Science class. Edited July 30, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guns Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 All the top 3-4 Corps have had pretty much the same staff designing the shows, teaching the MM's for years. Until these guys die, retire, or go to some other Corps, they will position their Corps to win it all every year. And like lemmings, the pilgrimmage to these Mecca's will take on a religious fervor on the part of the winter True Believers to secure an open position. Phantom Regiment, a wonderfully entertaining Corps this season, could have an All Star cast of superior brass, percussionists, guard this season... and they would still not medal.. No matter how well executed the show becomes. If the judges don't like your Show Design, it won't matter, You'll be SOOL for the entire new season before Memorial Day, let alone for the August Championships. I wouldn't be shocked if corps like BD and Cadets have protege's in place learning and being groomed by the current staff to take their place when it's their time to step down. I could be wrong but that's what i would do if i was running a corps. I would say corps like BD and Cadets don't replace......they reload. Should be the same for staff as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I once heard/read that Crown "taught" their way to the top (vs. 'designed' their way). I think there is something to be said for consistent teaching/staffing from year to year. That consistency attracts talent. IMO this is the ONLY way you can get move up a "tier". Build your talent from the ground up, and always design a show that pushes your performers but is NOT beyond their reach. Both of those things are no easy task to accomplish. But if you think snagging some top-flight designer for your corps is going to launch you to the next level, you're sadly mistaken. Design has to move in lock-step with the performers. Lots of examples of corps hiring a "big name" only see the only thing they got was a "big bill". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Show design is one thing. However, if you want to be a top 6 drum corps, you're going to have to incur the expenses that go along with it. Good design comes from the very best talent in the field. You have to pay the best to be the best. You also need to have an organization that can attract top talent in all areas. It is a conscious choice by board and director alike because of the monetary investment that needs to be made. Unfortunately, for some corps, the revenue simply is not there. Spending with the top corps when you don't have the ability to spend like them will catch up with you. There's been far too examples over the years where this has been the case. There's nothing wrong with being a secondary or lower level achieving drum corps. Simply live within your means. Edited July 30, 2015 by drumcorpsfever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Show design is one thing. However, if you want to be a top 6 drum corps, you're going to have to incur the expenses that go along with it. Good design comes from the very best talent in the field. You have to pay the best to be the best. You also need to have an organization that can attract top talent in all areas. It is a conscious choice by board and director alike because of the monetary investment that needs to be made. Unfortunately, for some corps, the revenue simply is not there. Spending with the top corps when you don't have the ability to spend like them will catch up with you. There's been far too examples over the years where this has been the case. There's nothing wrong with being a secondary or lower level achieving drum corps. Simply live within your means. You bring up a very good point...don't try to grow faster than you are able. You just might burn out. Now, I don't know anything about BK and whether they are trying to grow too fast, but I kind of don't think so. Mark Arnold is a smart man. If they set their eye on at least getting 6th this year, next year 5th or higher might be within their reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) There is significant difference in the way corps tour, and I think many fans would be surprised to see how far apart the extremes are. I'd be interested in what some have to say about this. How do corps tour differently from each other, what kind of extremes are we talking about, and how does that attract/repel prospective members? But this is probably for a different thread. Edited July 30, 2015 by BoyWonder1911 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't be shocked if corps like BD and Cadets have protege's in place learning and being groomed by the current staff to take their place when it's their time to step down. I could be wrong but that's what i would do if i was running a corps. I would say corps like BD and Cadets don't replace......they reload. Should be the same for staff as well. I ve said it over and over I dont care what the circumstances are winners just know how to win period and will find a way to stay relevant . so yes, there are always people being groomed but not just to take over but to maintain. Edited July 30, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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