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I think you mean the Vanguard Cadets. Also, BDB went to finals last year, along with the cadets corps. Let's also not forget that while SCV was languishing in 4th-8th for a decade the cadets corps was bringing home trophies. Let's not minimize the successes of 150 students who consistently execute higher than nearly all of their peers, as well as land mid-pack in the older and more experienced world class.

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Think broader - I also think sending the B corps from Vanguard to Indianapolis was a huge waste of money. BD went local with the B corps a few years ago and is doing it again this year, and don't seem to be having a problem finding kids to be in that corps. Is that better? 😄

Good points, and I agree. Likely most of those bands probably have no interest in going to BOA Grand Nationals. Once in a while if they can afford it is nice, but most years it's likely not a priority. And if they do go but do not make Finals that is not necessarily a knock on the talent but usually on show design and teaching. There are likely many talented kids in those California bands. I suppose a lot of this talk about where to find talent is part of our (all of us) effort to figure out how to bring SCV back to the field. Santa Clara Vanguard is still a major brand name in DCI circles and even the entire marching arts platform. So once they feel confident financially and can agree upon a cost for the members, a feasible tour schedule, staff and other needs they will have NO PROBELM in attracting members. It's a BIG brand name. Getting the World Class Corps on the field will not be the biggest problem. They may have to raise tuition. They may have to scale back on how much they tour out of California, and they will have to carefully determine design and instructional staff. Members will still come from all over...certainly from California, Texas and other western States. But the point I was trying to make in my earlier post is that if the SCV org wants to truly build their local base from the ground up then SCV Cadets and other local ensembles need to become a focal point. They need a Youth Arts Initiative for local youth that the community and schools can get behind. You need local help, local parents, local support for bingo, and local instructors for many of these initiatives. If you really want to raise money then it starts at home...and the people who support your home base want to know you are doing something for THEIR kids and not a bunch of college kids coming from all over the country. Times are changing and I really believe having a local base and programs that support local youth will be the way forward.

When the poll gets down to best 12th, put me down for a Troopers '22 vote.

The marching members "expect" a much higher level of instruction now days (& more of them), or could it be its foisted upon them....? I happen to believe it's more of the latter. It's like an arms race where more bells, whistles, and instructors are added and added and added. You believe that's been driven by the marching members? I don't. And it has driven up the cost for lower income and middle class kids and made it virtually impossible for a start-up corps to grow and compete in the upper echelon and meanwhile upper echelon corps are disappearing before our eyes. Drum Corp was intended to be for any kid off the street to be able to learn a musical instrument, enjoy camaraderie and learn life-long skills, not a Masters program with tenured professors. But that's what Drum Corps wants and it's helping speed its own demise because of it. You get what you pay for - until you can no longer afford it.

My understanding from a mother whose son marched in 2018 and 2019 is that 2019 was the more difficult year for marching members, especially alums. In 2018, everyone admired the fact the corps made the field. The audiences were enthusiastic and lots of folks who were not Cadets fans still supported them. Also as much as possible, external strife did not impact the show. In 2019 you had a poorly conceived show, the fans were not as receptive, and the off field strife was no secret to marching members. I often run into Cadets volunteers at the airport and one who has volunteered for years said “They did the best with what they were given.” Her words were pretty accurate. Regarding the controversial nature of the show, I understand what they wanted to do, but a drum corps show that combines learning a lesson, #MeToo, and a promise to do better didn’t make sense for me then and still does not now. Take the sexual assault allegations out of the picture, you still had the former director’s antics, financial issues, and staff discord. That’s a culture that developed and it can take years to combat. I’m not sure that show was even a step in the right direction.

God Bless The Stentors. The last of the "doing the way we did it BITD". Just hope (and I'm sure they are) they're eating better than a PB&J and gas station Slim Jims diet.

Lemme at those sumsabeaches. I'll ask the tough questions. I was a cub reporter for the US Grant Middle School Weekly Reader.

From the SCV CEO resigns to bands......I'm taking a you'ie...anyone try the Double down from KFC?

DCI is not known for transparency.

Spending the money to send kids from California to Indiana in the middle of November is a huge waste of money. I find it unbelievable that anyone not already in a midwestern community would give it a second thought, to be honest.

I don't know what goes on behind the closed doors or in private discussions, but there's got to be a boatload of concern at the top. If it's everything is hunky-dorey and there's nothing to see here, kiss it all goodbye.

Rocky Horror

well...theres only so many corps. and i do know several people that one bad season was enough to chase them away forever. granted, in the 80's and 90's things weren't as they are today for the kids, but the old school macho BS we see on here and elsewhere from older alumni did turn away several kids forever after one year. and many others had enough that when they were done, they didn't come back as active spectators. and if Bostons board weren't so #### good, would they have the experience excellence they now rave about?

Love that show! I saw it in London in the West End. I also would love to see a corps do Spamalot. The issue with both would be having to sing the entire corps show, since the lyrics are a good part of what makes the shows funny.

I imagine the controversy could be maxed out if The Battalion did this.

Well I obviously I am not and won't speak for everyone, but I just talked to my son and confirmed that Vista Murrieta was indeed supposed to go to Grand Nationals in 2020 before Covid wiped everything out. And the Vista kids and the staff cared. They wanted to go and compete. Again that's just one SoCal school, but they cared and had their reasons for going.

This notion that CA talent isn't as strong because the schools don't bother heading east for some national competition is very strange to me. Who cares? Why would a CA HS band want to spend it's resources dragging kids to the Midwest? Honestly I'd argue your average WBA competition is enough to handle the most competitive and invested of HS student needs, and a trip from Broken Arrow, OK to Indy isn't all that longer than a trip from Santa Rosa, CA to Disneyland. Starting from Santa Rosa to Indy? That's a 36 hour trip with no stops. And for what? Even with as bad a shape as open class is in right now IMO, better to send your excited about marching students to go march an open class corps than pay out the nose for a trip to *checks notes* Indiana. The same is true with sending your best to be in county, Northern/Southern, and state honor bands. Also, are there even that many high schoolers marching the top WC corps anymore? I'd figure the West Coast Universities on the quarter system is more of an issue for membership than high schools not doing national competition.

All very interesting and I will accept it as completely accurate, though it has little relevance to the challenge facing VMAPA. The topic is how VMAPA can best position itself for revival. Insofar as that question involves recruiting from the pool of interested students in its own backyard, the competitive success of CA HS bands at BOAGN would seem to have nothing to do with the answer. What makes an individual student eager, motivated and qualified to seek membership in SCV, and what makes a HS music program competitive at a national level among other HS bands, are considerations that are almost completely removed from each other, aside from the fact they both concern music/dance performance. Consider, for example, that one reason why CA bands don't factor into BOA more prominently is that GN is held in Indianapolis -- a hugely expensive travel and logistical proposition for a 250-member ensemble of California-based minors, and all the associated support. Even in the Midwest, just getting to BOA regionals requires total program buy-in from the principal's office and a massive, engaged booster organization that works fundraising 24/7. Whipping up support for the vision falls largely on the back of the band director, so BOA success ends up being a function of the personality and drive (and sacrifice of sleep) of one person, and the resources they can summon from the school's community. For a band director in California, the burdens are even heavier if only because of their distance from the Heartland. And all of this has just about zero influence on whether a guard member in Poway has the interest, discipline, and chops to audition for Santa Clara -- or on SCV's ability to find and recruit her. The whole question on the table here is whether VMAPA can revive its competitive stature by finding membership from California. I think the answer is emphatically yes, and that the vicissitudes of the CA HS marching band scene are nearly irrelevant to the question. If you're going to make the argument that competitively successful DCI corps require ready and proximate access to BOA-National-caliber HS band programs, I think you've got an entirely different argument on your hands. It's an argument that's going to have to explain the legions of kids who have left places like Iowa -- or heck, places like San Diego -- to join top-level drum corps, and explain BD's 20 rings.

Without question in my head anyway, 27th Lancers 1980. The biggest rip in DCI history.