See me, hear me...(don't touch me or feel me, though...ew.)

[Bob984]

And the point I continue to make is:

I'm fine with that if the final score comes down that way.

And we agree to disagree there....no problem....I don't believe the organization that finishes 5th in music should have any chance at winning the title.

I think you're 'cherry picking' your evidence a bit when making claims like that. The guard number in the past few years has been no more or less a 'sizeable spread' than say percussion has been in the music caption.

My only claim about guard is this year.............not the past few.....my claim last year was that I question

the sudden 2 19.9's (99.5 %) given to Cavs in both visual performance and visual ensemble....up from 19.2 and 19.6

in quarterfinals....yes the spread in percussion was substantial, and justified in my opinion......I didn't see the big

spread in visual being justified, though, and out an out also disagreed with the calls at finals in GE Music, Brass, and

Music Ensemble.....I wasn't alone, as the hall of famer's I was sitting with also gave Phantom the edge....

In fact, I would say that the drum judges have probably had the biggest spreads the last few years.

They are simply calling a spade a spade.............

GB

[Bob984]

ah yes....the jump to the extreme. That usually shows up when one is losing an argument.

Oh well. The mature discussion was fun while it lasted!

(and by the way, last time I went there were more than 40 people at WGI).

cheers.

Yes.....I jumped to the sarcastic....but if I am losing my argument, then prove your point......post another post and simply suggest that more points get allocated for visual then music, take a poll, and then we will see just how much in the "minority' I am........

GB

[jwillis35]

My preference has always been music first. It is, after all, called drum and bugle corps. It is a musical activity first dating back to its roots to this very day, and while the visual has added amazing effect and quality to the activity, music is still at the forefront of what this is all about.

I would pay to see a standstill of just horns and drums. That is not the case for drill and visuals like flags and sabers/rifles. The truly emotional effect that we experience from drum corps comes from the music. The visuals are cool, exciting, and can be breath-taking, but not in the same way as the music, and certainly not without the music.

The best case in point for this argument is this: shows that exhibited amazing music often ended up being fan favorites, even when their visual design was not up to the current standard in design and demand.

[dccorpsfan]

I'm definatly a music guy. I'll take a solid horn book over jaw dropping drill any day. Of course, I'd rather have both; but if I had to choose, I'd have to pick the music.

Edited July 24, 2007 by dccorpsfan

[drumcat]

The music and the visual are a marriage...

Seperate them and one of many groups could play or march at an unbelievable level-- but to have so many corps who do both, simultaneously, as well as they do prove that both are of equal importance. I believe the best catch phrase would be that of "mutually exclusive".

Yet the term "mutually exclusive" is not accurate. The music can and does stand alone. The visual portion of shows is unique to the marching genre, but that came from military music on the move. "Drill" was literally that; playing in a block on the move. Then academic paramilitary bands expanded the idea into scholastic endeavors that usually involved athletics. Thus, the beginning of drill. It evolved out of the added complexity of marching bands.

Clearly, there was not a lineage where a drill team went out on a football field to do acrobatics and spell "HELP" to passing aircraft, and then suddenly their leader decided that what was missing was a Sousa march.

Again; the music stands on its own. Guard work stands on its own, sort of. (Imagine a CD of WGI guards... soundtrack?) Drill does not stand on its own. It assists in telling the story of the music, but the music is paramount. You can disagree long and hard, but it's the truth. Because of that, music should indeed be greater than half, but not all of the judged score. I think 60%, but you make it what you will. As long as it's greater than 50%.

[beavs]

Bob,

would you refuse to listen to a corps that got 5th in music? Its sounding to me like you would. There are multiple combos of caption scores that could result in getting 5th in music, i'm sure you know this... it just seems like *5th* is so far away from *1st* to you... did you happen to see the spread between 5th and 1st in music at San Antonio? It was less than the spread from 5th to 6th... lets take the numbers and captions out of this, yeah? They're not helping you.

I'd also like to hear more peoples opinions. Lots of votes, no posts.

[JayM]

I kind of have this feeling that the corps in question will place higher in music than fifth at finals.

[Bob984]

Bob,

would you refuse to listen to a corps that got 5th in music? Its sounding to me like you would. There are multiple combos of caption scores that could result in getting 5th in music, i'm sure you know this... it just seems like *5th* is so far away from *1st* to you... did you happen to see the spread between 5th and 1st in music at San Antonio? It was less than the spread from 5th to 6th... lets take the numbers and captions out of this, yeah? They're not helping you.

I'd also like to hear more peoples opinions. Lots of votes, no posts.

Whoa.....I don't refuse to listen to ANY corps...I'm in my seat from the 1st note of the first corps to the last note of the last.....and I was not saying that 5th in music is not respectable....but not what I expect from the champion.........I'll also say this and leave it for another time: IMO there is much to be improved in music judging, with music effect being the most blatant of problems......

GB

[Bob984]

I kind of have this feeling that the corps in question will place higher in music than fifth at finals.

not this year.....unless other's suddenly start playing bad.....not likely.............

GB

[JayM]

not this year.....unless other's suddenly start playing bad.....not likely.............

GB

Who is other? And why does he have a suddenly?

Have you seen the corps in question live?