Benny_4 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) B ) Gun deaths among youth, particularly accidental, are the highest they have ever beenIsn't it time to change? I am not suggesting that the activity outright bans them, but I am saying it isn't such a cool thing for young kids to potentially emulate (imagine the first news story of a young kid finding a real rifle, copying what they had seen, ending in tragedy). In addition, there are at least 3,782,469 other possible things out there to spin (how many of them haven't even been thought up?). So, why spin something that not only makes zero sense, but it modeled after something designed to kill? The activity has moved well beyond its military roots. It is time now to retire rifles in search of alternatives that are more creative, programmatically appropriate and socially responsible. This is the most liberal crap I've ever heard. They're treating the rifle with the respect a weapon deserves. And I don't think the program has lost it's military roots. If it had, we wouldn't be marching! Edited August 30, 2007 by Benny_4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 Step 1 - Design The reason why there have not been any new sort of standard equipment come along that people gravitate to is because, while the designs have been interesting, the quality, durability, spinability or practicality have all been issues. People have not had the patience to continue through that development process, so, they tend to revert back to a more stable and familiar piece of equipment. The design of the rifle has evolved dramatically over the past few decades. What guards spin now is significantly different than many, many iterations over this period. Arriving at this point now was more trial and error than conscience design. Anyway, my point is that this is not an issue that any guard designer or instructor is really qualified to effectively resolve. This is an industrial design/engineering challenge (actually, it is quite remedial from an ID/engineering standpoint to create something new that has the proper balance). This could actually be an interesting student project for some industrial design/engineering students, to come up with concepts for something like this. It would be interesting for a corps creative team to collaborate with a university ID department to come up with concepts. Step 2 - Manufacturing Most rifles that corps are using these days (at least the very best rifles out there) are not made in some factory, but by a couple of guys in a woodworking shed New Jersey. The guy's wife helps with the bolts and straps. Premier Rifles (they made the Ultimate Rifle and all the ones for Miller). Anyway, manufacturing isn't too big of a deal. Step 3 - Spinning the d*mn things. If they are designed properly, this issue becomes greatly diminished. Step 4 - Train the judges. Judges aren't getting into detail of technique, but more consistency of the technique from member to member. There are loads of variations in technique out there on all kinds of equipment. BD vs. Cadets, for example, their flag technique is dramatically different, yet they are still judged the same way. Again, judging of technique is limited to evaluating general consistency and execution. Step 5 ish - Training retention. This is a reality of performing in different seasons with different groups. For example, I had a friend that performed years ago with Madison, then went to SCV and then Cadets, but performed with San Jose Raiders in the winter. Every single place had a bit different technique... and people moving around like that doesn't seem to hurt the groups very much. I see this only as an issue for less skilled or less experienced performers. In their case, if they are not technically skilled enough to handle such a change, they should likely stick to just flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingamin Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Also if you did not know,.....there made of wood!!!!!!!!!!!! And therefore, she's a witch. Burn her!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF2K4 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 A ) Rifles make absolutely zero sense programmatically anymore Yea, but couldn't the same be said for sabres, flags, and uniforms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 Yea, but couldn't the same be said for sabres, flags, and uniforms? yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 That's right - you didn't see any shows in 2006. Anyone have a link to a pic of their uniform backs from last year? Yeah. I saw it. An interesting show... but the uniforms... it seemed a bit awkward and kind of forced. It would have been a much cooler show without the uniforms and more appropriate costumes. I get why they are still hanging on to them. It is only because the alumni would freak out. This is unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Yeah. I saw it. An interesting show... but the uniforms... it seemed a bit awkward and kind of forced.It would have been a much cooler show without the uniforms and more appropriate costumes. I get why they are still hanging on to them. It is only because the alumni would freak out. This is unfortunate. One of the coolest shows to me this century was Surf's School's Out show...the corps dressed in shorts and blue Hawaiian Shirts, with baseball caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 So at what point do we say that sabres, flags, and uniforms should also constantly change with show design?And then at what point do member dues pass $5000? Well, for flags and (guard) uniforms, that was many, many years ago. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHall Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) This discussion is insane. 1) Fake guns. That right there is all I need to be OK with "rifles" being used in marching band. The use of fake guns in marching band has absolutely nothing to do with any gun deaths anywhere. Period. The notion that the two could somehow be related at all is absolutely ludicrous. It boggles my mind that anyone might think the mere sight of a gun could cause someone to kill another human being. I believe that's what the assumption is, and it's insane. -BH That being said...I just saw a handgun on TV. I think I'll go kill a couple people. Woo! ----------------------------- Drum corps will get rid of rifles when a new piece of equipment becomes the standard. It won't change over night. Edited August 30, 2007 by BenHall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF2K4 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 yep. But that's ridiculous in and of itself. Member dues are already high and will probably be skyrocketing with gas prices alone... let's not make this harder for everyone to do. Well, for flags and (guard) uniforms, that was many, many years ago.Mike I don't mean guard uniforms, I mean corps uniforms. I mean, when did Billy Joel ever wear a green jacket or an aussie? Or since when do train conductors wear shakos and plumes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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