danielray Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 It's more objective than you think. John Mack definitely sounds better than the principal oboist of B.T. Washington High School, god bless his soul. Not that I believe in god... I was actually dating one of his old students for awhile... and she took me out drinking with him during IDRS one year. Afterward, at a party, he started screwing around with an old plastic Fox (think like that famous recording of Charles Ives blind drunk playing the piano). That night, I think 3rd chair B.T. Washington Junior High might have actually been up on Mack. So, it can truly vary from night to night. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Are you @#$%*&! kidding?Get your nose out of the recap and open your ears. I think the fans pretty much spoke to what they thought with that Hot Chops voting this season. There is more to this activity then scores. Don't let the educated, yet subjective opinion of a couple of guys in green shirts rule your world. The only thing the hot chops award proved is that crown has more fans on the east coast than anybody else. Dont get me wrong - its a GREAT thing for them, but it speaks more to their ability to reach people, and design an easily accessable show for the average fan than anything else. Best hornline- sure, ill buy that. Best Drumline (over phantom and cadets), no - thats called voting for your favorite corps regardless of what your eyes and ears perceive. Audience based awards like that sort of show the fallacy with allowing the fans into the judging process... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSnareline Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 This thread is STUPID and should be wiped from existence. OK - a Winner! Best post in the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchromik Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 The only thing the hot chops award proved is that crown has more fans on the east coast than anybody else. Dont get me wrong - its a GREAT thing for them, but it speaks more to their ability to reach people, and design an easily accessable show for the average fan than anything else. Best hornline- sure, ill buy that. Best Drumline (over phantom and cadets), no - thats called voting for your favorite corps regardless of what your eyes and ears perceive. Audience based awards like that sort of show the fallacy with allowing the fans into the judging process... I would agree with you for the most part. Fans generally do not have the education or background to technically judge brass. But they are smarter then we give them credit for. Generally most folks can separate their own likes (ie. volume, style, book) from what is considered 'superior'. Fifteen years ago I would have seriously scoffed at the idea of fans being factored into the adjudication, but I have come to think that the crowd's reaction, or better yet emotional involvement, should be factored by the judge into the GE. You have to ask yourself what is the point of playing music in the first place. Be it toe tapping approachable music or highly technical "Oh !@#$" brass moments, the ability to Effect a response from people is at the heart of the concept of playing in the first place. If we are only playing for the judges then why bother with the all the touring and silly suits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 (edited) Personal opinion: (which means I am not trying to offend ANYONE, this is just what I have come to believe) Crown is loud and crowd pleasing, but I believe the way their brass book is written is designed to emphasize "simpler" techniques that end up being crowd pleasing. This to me is one of the reasons they took 7th in brass, because judges judge how well it is in comparison to how hard it is. So even if they performed it well, if it was easier, that means it should have sounded better. 3) That said, the fact that they have a brass staff talented enough to be able to put together a program that sounds complicated and turns into something ridiculously crowd pleasing means that no, they should not leave. They are clearly incredibly wonderful at what they do, because they clearly know the ins and outs of the game and can find a way to max their kids out at a great meeting point of technique and capability. Fact Crown took 7th in brass, but 6th overall. That's only one place lower, and in a season where the final score for the 7th place corps was the highest score for 7th place in history! I agree, if they consistently year after year were low in brass, then MAYBE you can make an argument, but in one of the most competitive seasons in history the 6th place corps took 7th in brass....As far as I know, and I could be wrong, not too much changed staff wise for their percussion. They took 12th in percussion last year, right? (could be wrong on that last night...) They took 5th this year in percussion! If you apply that current rate of progression to their brass score, they will actually win brass next year! But to argue that despite them making Box 5 and having their brass score just a bit lower than their overall final placement during a season where the 7th place corps was actually in first one night really seems a little too picky. But that could just be me. Ok, some of those "facts" actually were opinions. Sorry kids. Edited August 31, 2007 by ouooga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 I thought their brass chocked the first part of their show on finals. Some flubs, stick out and a really bad attack. Once they got into the show a little bit, they sounded fine but I thought for sure Bluecoats would jump them. I thought most corps had off shows on finals and their ‘on’ show at semis> I like their approach and the sound they are going for but I was a bit underwhelmed after all the hype. 7th in Brass seems just right for them We’ll see on the DVD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellodramatic Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Personal opinion: (which means I am not trying to offend ANYONE, this is just what I have come to believe) 1) I am not a Crown fan. 2) Crown is loud and crowd pleasing, but the way their brass book is written is designed to emphasize "simpler" techniques that end up being crowd pleasing. This to me is one of the reasons they took 7th in brass, because judges judge how well it is in comparison to how hard it is. So even if they performed it well, if it was easier, that means it should have sounded better.3) That said, the fact that they have a brass staff talented enough to be able to put together a program that sounds complicated and turns into something ridiculously crowd pleasing means that no, they should not leave. They are clearly incredibly wonderful at what they do, because they clearly know the ins and outs of the game and can find a way to max their kids out at a great meeting point of technique and capability. Fact Crown took 7th in brass, but 6th overall. That's only one place lower, and in a season where the final score for the 7th place corps was the highest score for 7th place in history! I agree, if they consistently year after year were low in brass, then MAYBE you can make an argument, but in one of the most competitive seasons in history the 6th place corps took 7th in brass....As far as I know, and I could be wrong, not too much changed staff wise for their percussion. They took 12th in percussion last year, right? (could be wrong on that last night...) They took 5th this year in percussion! If you apply that current rate of progression to their brass score, they will actually win brass next year! But to argue that despite them making Box 5 and having their brass score just a bit lower than their overall final placement during a season where the 7th place corps was actually in first one night really seems a little too picky. But that could just be me. Ok, some of those "facts" actually were opinions. Sorry kids. Actually they basically replaced the entire percussion staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeabrass Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 It's more objective than you think. John Mack definitely sounds better than the principal oboist of B.T. Washington High School, god bless his soul. Not that I believe in god... Well, care to explain what quantifiable music standards they failed to live up to? I'd really like to know your expert opinion Einstein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Keep them...and pay them more....that is a fine, fine hornline, and they can't be "ignored" forever..... GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubamann Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Personal opinion: (which means I am not trying to offend ANYONE, this is just what I have come to believe) 1) I am not a Crown fan. 2) Crown is loud and crowd pleasing, but the way their brass book is written is designed to emphasize "simpler" techniques that end up being crowd pleasing. This to me is one of the reasons they took 7th in brass, because judges judge how well it is in comparison to how hard it is. So even if they performed it well, if it was easier, that means it should have sounded better. I would offer that CC's brass book is not as technically difficult as some..(ie hard technical passages..though I think CC had their fair share..listen to the trumpet feature in the opener) However.. The Exposure in their brass book is VERY high, and the musical demand, exp in the ballad is very high. To me lots of notes doesn't necessarily mean hard.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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