Fans Not Clapping at the End of a Corps Show ?

[The Other Mike]

ugh. "marching musics major league." sheesh.

if the non-clappers on this thread are as elitist as some are coming across, i presume many of you dont even bother ever attending a div 2/3 show because of the lack of entertainment, precision, and excellence at the highest level. obviously theyre not making the most of their "tuition," hmmm?

oh wait, theyre kids performing because of their love of performance/drum corps/their corpsmates. choosiness in appreciation doesnt make the activity better or even (GASP) bring back "traditional" show design. youre not doing a disservice to yourself or your pride for at least clapping for kids' efforts, even if their performance level/show design wasnt up to your standards. clapping doesnt hurt your hands that much, but the right amount of it might just make a 16 year old's night.

how can people whove marched before seriously post and say that theyre 100% indifference to audience reaction??? you mean to say you snap your horn down at the end of a piece and honestly feel exactly the same if the audience is standing/screaming/cheering, or staring at you completely silently?? no way i could ever believe that.

As far as II and III goes, I appreciate their efforts much more than dividion I ...errrr World Class. They are usually the ones fighting all the battles. Besides trying to get enough kids, ( of any talent) they can't afford the higher priced staff and it's usually still people doing it for the love of doing it, not for what they can make off the kids by way of a Big Name.

And considering some of the crap they have to deal with as far as DCI goes, it's a wonder there are many at all.

As a band director I'd rather see class II or III because I'm more likely to get drill ideas from them that I can acheive with my kids than the World Class corps. Yes, I enjoy the big corps and find many of them amazing at what they do, some I find neither entertaining nor stimulating, but I still clap for them.

But theres something about a small corps that hits my heart deep. It just seems DCI doesn't have much of a heart when it comes to those kids.

Yes, applause gets to you, but if your in the correct mindset you are more concerned about your next move than anything else. ( or is it just that I'm so simple minded that I HAD to think about what came next ? )

Still, I clap, but I defend everyones right not to clap if they feel that way.

Many times my clapping is delayed because I'm taking a few moments to digest what I have heard and seen, should I be punished for that ?

[Lance]

That's a question that everyone needs to ask themselves. And like I said before, drum corps crowds in general are not "polite". They let you know exactly what they feel. If they love you, they'll stand up and cheer. If they think you were OK, you'll get some claps. If they didn't like you, they'll sit on their hands, and maybe even boo during announcements of scores if they think you got placed too high.

You could look at not clapping as being disrespectful to the performers and their efforts. Or you could look at clapping at something you didn't like as being dishonest and doing a disservice to the performers by not telling them what you really thought.

Clapping for the the work performers put out even when it's show one doesn't like is NOT being dishonest nor is it a sign of condescension. It's a sign of genuine appreciation, and it's the least they've earned. I'm just presupposing that the performers put their all into their performance which is the most I could ever ask from them. They earn every bit of the applause I give even if the show isn't my cup of tea.

[liebot]

Clapping for the the work performers put out even when it's show one doesn't like is NOT being dishonest nor is it a sign of condescension. It's a sign of genuine appreciation, and it's the least they've earned. I'm just presupposing that the performers put their all into their performance which is the most I could ever ask from them. They earn every bit of the applause I give even if the show isn't my cup of tea.

Right. But a lot of people on here don't have a genuine appreciation for the performers. They're either jaded after having been a member awhile ago and having seen/followed drum corps for a long time, or they've never marched and don't really know/appreciate what it means to march a season of drum corps.

Edited October 22, 2007 by TSRTS13

[Tom D'Bomb]

Right. But a lot of people on here don't have a genuine appreciation for the performers. They're either jaded after having been a member awhile ago and having seen/followed drum corps for a long time, or they've never marched and don't really know/appreciate what it means to march a season of drum corps.

See, now I'm confused...

Am I supposed to clap, or stroke my chin and say "Wow man, that's deep?"

Help me out here.

[JimF-LowBari]

True. But for me, there still needs to be at least some form of recognition for the corps hard work.

I joined a corps that had been inactive and did two competitions our first season. First one we set a record for low score. Next season we came in dead last every show until the week before Finals. Yeah, getting applause and having people pay compliments helps when they are about the only good things coming your way.

Getting a score half as big as the winning corps doesn't mean you spent half as much effort on it..... Or you only give half a crap about it...

Edited October 23, 2007 by JimF-3rdBari

[madscout96]

Here's a good sports analogy. I just saw "We Are Marshall" last week for the first time. The team at the beginning of the movie was like any other winning, title-contending team where the most important thing was winning. The team at the end of the movie was a team for which the most important thing was that they play the game in the first place. I think these two teams and these two situations require two different sets of applause etiquette. The pre-crash Marshall football team got cheers when they won, and probably not many when they lost. The post-crash Marshall team got cheers just for their effort, regardless of win or loss.

Perhaps the applause etiquette could change with different levels of drum corps too? We don't have to have one set of rules to cover the entire activity, do we? The Blue Devils don't really get the same treatment as Blue Devils C, do they?

[Fran Haring]

I clap for every corps at the end of their show. I might not give a corps a standing "O" if a particular show didn't really grab me......... but I applaud each corps. To me, it's a "common courtesy" thing.

Fran

[TAFL]

I've read the word "respect" several times in this thread. I really have to wonder about its use, however, as what one person says is respectful appears to make absolutely no sense to another. I suspect it would behoove folks to clarify their key terms in this.

For me, I find that respect works in this fashion:

For any performance, you have an audience. That means there are two parties to every performance--the performer and that audience. I find that respect is something that is applied by each in relation to the other.

The performer shows respect to the audience in straightforward fashion: first, by honest preparation; next, by honest performance; and finally, by allowing the audience to express itself as it sees fit. That last is essential to all relationships--allowing others to respond as they see fit. Whether dealing with a spouse, coworker, client, or audience member, respect extends to allowing that other person to respond in their own fashion. We don't get to require them to respond in only a limited fashion--if we respect them and their autonomy.

The audience shows respect for the performer also in straightforward fashion: first, by honest appraisal; and then by honest response. If the audience allows the performer to perform without interruption and gives the performer a chance to win it over, then an honest appraisal has been given. The audience also then can provide an honest response based on that appraisal--whether for good or ill. Indeed, that is the heart of judging, the difference between the judging audience and the general audience being one of how that feedback is given.

As far as response to a show on the field, liken it to dealing with waitstaff at your favorite restaurant. If service--the performance--is poor (for whatever reason), then perhaps the best response is to leave no tip (no applause). If it's worse, then a miniscule tip (golf clap). If it's good, then your regular 15 percent (regular applause), and if it's really good, a larger tip (standing ovation).

I know that in all the years I've been performing--for love or money, music or theater or whatever else--I always wanted respect from the audience. That meant that I was always open to its response, for good or ill. What I never wanted was a disrespectful response, whether strained laughter or "polite" applause or the equivalent.

I will also offer that tossing around ad hominem attacks at folks who happen to disagree with one shows a great lack of respect for others. Any engaged in such have no basis on which to be commenting on respect in any form, I think. Hypocrisy is not a firm podium from which to hold forth.

TAFL

long-winded ########

[JimF-LowBari]

Here's a good sports analogy. I just saw "We Are Marshall" last week for the first time. The team at the beginning of the movie was like any other winning, title-contending team where the most important thing was winning. The team at the end of the movie was a team for which the most important thing was that they play the game in the first place. I think these two teams and these two situations require two different sets of applause etiquette. The pre-crash Marshall football team got cheers when they won, and probably not many when they lost. The post-crash Marshall team got cheers just for their effort, regardless of win or loss.

Perhaps the applause etiquette could change with different levels of drum corps too? We don't have to have one set of rules to cover the entire activity, do we? The Blue Devils don't really get the same treatment as Blue Devils C, do they?

Problem is there are some people who don't see the difference in what Div I, Div II, Div III corps are trying to achieve (using the old names to try to be more clear). They compare a lower Div corps to what a top 3 corps does and immediately think the lower corps suck because they can't achieve the same results. Gotta look at the different groups with different set of eyes/criteria to appreciate.

Same idea as thinking the older shows stink because they don't sound like the shows of today. Never mind the different equipment, recording technology, etc. IMO that's as dumb as saying a Model T Ford is a piece of crap because it can't do 120MPH like a 2007 Mustang (hey I also belong to the Antique Auto Club of America).

PS - Ya would have to bring up Marshall. My (female) cousin was a student there when the crash occured. Hope the movie showed how much the college means to the community as it literally is the biggest thing in town. (Movie is on my "see when you think you can handle it" list.)

Edited October 23, 2007 by JimF-3rdBari

[Triple Forte]

And the Politeness Nazis strike again! How egalitarian of you to demand that everyone conform to your idea of what's rude and not!

"Classy behavior" is congratulating your hated competitor for defeating you. "Classy behavior" is being a gracious winner. ClassLESS behavior is booing. It is turning your back to the corps on the field or making snide remarks to anyone wearing a corps' colors or logo. Not clapping, in and of itself, is NOT classless behavior, just like clapping in and of itself is not "classy" behavior. Given the correct context, it might gain "classy" status, ie Cadets applauding BD for winning. The two extremes are not all the possibilities available; what falls outside of "classy" is not automatically deemed "classless".

I think that most people on here have construed a good policy: Applaud if you like it, cheer yourself hoarse if you loved it, and whatever else, at the very least don't boo. But, apparently that's not good enough for some people. Is coerced applause a good thing?

As someone else posted, sometimes everyone else is standing, and I remain in my seat. I'm still putting my hands together, but I'm not pulled up to my feet by what I just witnessed. Am I being rude because I'm not conforming? Hardly. Conversely, if I'm the only one jumping to my feet by something a corps just did, am I being rude? Hardly, either. (Funny how no one condemns that!)

Let's put this into perspective. There are four opportunities to applaud for a corps: when they enter the field, when they finish their performance, when they troop the stands after the performance, and when their score is announced. (There used to be one more: when they played off the field after retreat.) I think we're really only talking about the second one in this thread: at the conclusion of the performance, when we are most affected by it.

If you want to show your respect for the members' hard work even if you hated the show, I think it's quite reasonable not to clap at the end of the show but stand and applaud as the corps troops off the field.

I don't know that I ever saw a show that I disliked so badly that I didn't clap at all, but I reserve my right to do so in the future.

I guess it comes down to this question: Is a "golf" clap condescending toward a corps and its members? (Put it in the category with the "white lie".) Should I clap for any ol' piece of crap put on a football field, even if I thought it was the worst thing ever done, just to spare someone's feelings?

Probably, most spectators would decide that it doesn't cost them much to slap their palms together a few times to discharge any responsibility they may feel toward others who put themselves out, attempting to entertain. However, I think most spectators would also balk at the requirement to do so, when externally imposed upon them.

As a drum corps nut I might be the wrong type of fan to comment any further on this topic. But let me just throw this out there. Lets assume that everyone in the crowd at a drum corps show loves drum corps (Duh ??). Its hard for me to believe that as a fan of drum corps (Remember you took time and money to go to a show) you can't find ANYTHING during a corps 10 minute performance to applaud. That's hard for me (A drum corps nut) to believe.

I will let the cat out of the bag now. I stand and applaud for every corps efforts and clap til blood is drawn for my favorite shows/corps. I hate narration and amps....and don't applaud during there use in a show. I stood and clapped for the 2006 Cadets......why ?? because they had probably one of the best hornlines in their history and were extremely talented.

Edited October 23, 2007 by Triple Forte