Pirated finals videos

[BozzlyB]

And PBS finally refused to air it because DCI fans are notorious pledge-skimpers, and didn't bring in an audience compared to Saturday night British mysteries.

Even with revenues (not profits) around 7-9M, DCI gets by with the skin of their teeth. Almost all of that goes back into event expenses. The expansion of digital (online) media is a godsend for them, as it allows them to reach their core audience (corps fans) for live broadcasts at a tiny fraction of the cost for TV. I think FN was one of DCI's most brilliant ideas ... well... ever. It gives you almost real-time access to the corps during the summer and live video events, and that sucked the wind right out of the bootleg market - and they managed to replace the TV broadcast with a much cheaper-to-produce alternative to boot.

Mike

I remember when DCI was aired on PBS because it deserved to be seen, and wasn't just used as donation fodder. When the DCI broadcast became apart of their pledge drive, it became unwatchable. Check out the 88 PBS broadcast and compare it to the last few years PBS had DCI on. The PBS/DCI pledge drive was a complete joke. 10 second highlights of most of top 12, with abbreviated shows of the top 5? Seriously? As a fan of DCI tuning in to see finals night performances, IMO PBS still owes ME money.

[cybersnyder]

I remember when DCI was aired on PBS because it deserved to be seen, and wasn't just used as donation fodder. When the DCI broadcast became apart of their pledge drive, it became unwatchable. Check out the 88 PBS broadcast and compare it to the last few years PBS had DCI on. The PBS/DCI pledge drive was a complete joke. 10 second highlights of most of top 12, with abbreviated shows of the top 5? Seriously? As a fan of DCI tuning in to see finals night performances, IMO PBS still owes ME money.

IIRC, the last few years it was on PBS the only complete song was "On the Road Again".

[flervinuveling]

i've filmed every show i've been to. granted i'm only filming my corps because i really couldn't care less about the others, but still. and i'm gonna keep doing it. i've never distributed them. i only do it so i can watch it a few more times once i get home because i live in a state where there are virtually no dci shows and i don't want to wait for the dvds to see my corps again. i also don't want to pay for the fan network because, as i've said, i only really care about my corps. i don't want to pay for the dvds either but do anyway. why? because the footage that i take myself sucks. it has crappy picture, sound, one angle, and people talking moving in front of the picture. so dci still gets there money from me.

though i will say this in hopes that dci reads these forums and i want them to know; the dvds ARE way overpriced and if they don't come down i will no longer buy them. i'll burn a copy of a friend's dvd

[trionbd]

This is obviously a divided topic where there are a few hard liners that think that anything that's illegal is also immoral, and probably most others who think that it's a stupid thing to be arguing about because it hurts no one.

My take...People who record shows are not your casual fan. They are your DCI hard core fans. Most folks that are recording in the stadium are also the people that are recording outside the venue at warm up. They are recording not to take away from anyone, but rather to feed their drum corps junkie habit that constant daily feeding fails to satisfy. They probably marched somewhere, which means they spent whatever money they could scrape together in their youth to pull off the summer(s) of their dreams. They spend their money on tickets, souvies, CD's and DVD's, and in many cases they pay for the DCI Fan Network. They've spent thousands of dollars on the activity, and over a lifetime, tens of thousands of dollars.

You can say what you want about it being immoral, illegal, taking away from the member corps, or whatever other way you want to spin it. If this is your stance on this issue you have totally missed the boat. It's a very high handed position to take because it makes others who see people recording do this think that you are not only a criminal, but worse...less of a fan for doing such a despicable thing to the activity.

I get why they have to say that it's illegal on your ticket. I really do. It's there to protect them from copywrite infringements mostly. But there is a reason that they don't come crashing down with an iron fist at the shows. There's a reason that you don't see people being regularly thrown out of stadiums. It's because it's actually not hurting anyone at all. There are a few people in every crowd who act like the kid that tells on others when teacher comes back in the room. I suppose that they are entitled to their own stance, but come on gang. Would you really like to see the guy wearing a souvie shirt, souvie hat, with a corps jacket that has 5 years worth of patches on it thrown out of the stadium because you think they are following the rules??? If your answer is yes...you really should rethink what it is that you are looking for out of the activity.

[JimF-LowBari]

I heard a guy on the radio this morning talking about how some baseball team owners used to refuse to allow their team's games to be broadcast on the radio because they didn't want to give their product away for free. They didn't realize that each broadcast was an advertisement for the next game.

Read about when hockey started being broadcast on radio in the 1920s. Then the fear was the people would stay home instead of going to the arena. So only the last period was broadcast for a while. In that case it wasn't a problem of giving for free, it was a worry of less paid butts in the seats.

Edited February 16, 2010 by JimF-3rdBari

[corps-mudgeon]

This is obviously a divided topic where there are a few hard liners that think that anything that's illegal is also immoral, and probably most others who think that it's a stupid thing to be arguing about because it hurts no one.

I think a better characterization would be that some posters have pointed out that if something's illegal then, well... it's illegal. All the morality business was thrown in by the posters who would either rather not live with that or simply enjoy stirring the pot. I stand firmly in two of these camps.

[drumcat]

Devil's advocate: DVD prices are too high.

I don't come on here much anymore, but I do want to point out a few very important points that I don't often see discussed here.

#1 - Those of you complaining about the price of videos, I get it. Relative to other stuff, it's expensive. There are two main reasons why. First, production quality is pretty darn good, and that's not cheap. If you want to reduce the cost that way, you'll get single camera quality on par with a state band show. No one wants that.

#2 - You're paying for licenses. Unlike most videos, you're getting charged for roughly 50 licenses. DCI is legal, and making a point of it. If you don't like it, get the laws changed so that marching ensembles don't have to pay license fees.

#3 - Distributing "free" videos does more harm with composers than anything else. Yes, you might get a potential customer to not buy, but in general, the piracy that gets people to not purchase DVDs is by distributing actual rips. That's blatantly illegal, and everyone knows it. It's on the ticket; you agree when you buy the ticket to not videotape. Can you get away with it? Probably, and it won't be high quality.

In the end, though, it's the people that write the music that must say it's ok for corps to arrange it. If that stuff gets on YouTube in low quality, composers feel like their stuff was bastardized. If you've ever created anything, and had it "redone" in an artistic intent you didn't have, it's painful.

So if you don't want DCI to become a public-domain-only musical environment, you shouldn't be recording. If you're going to ask someone, make sure they don't have credentials, of course. Feel free to point this out to an usher or employee; don't feel the need to be confrontational. And above all else, don't condone the distribution of this material, free or not. If it really is for personal use, you'll never see it online, right? Flag the YouTube stuff.

DCI, as best as I can tell, is trying to live by the rules, and is only asking people to do the same.

[trionbd]

Side note...Has anyone ever been approached by someone with a bootleg copy of a drum corps recording and asked if you'd like to buy a copy?

I've been following drum corps since I was a kid. I marched two years, have gone to dozens of shows, and have known countless people who have recorded at a show. I've also been friends with, marched with, and rubbed elbows with potentially thousands of drum corps fans. I've never once been asked if I'd like to buy a copy of anything...never.

[glory]

I don't come on here much anymore, but I do want to point out a few very important points that I don't often see discussed here.

#1 - Those of you complaining about the price of videos, I get it. Relative to other stuff, it's expensive. There are two main reasons why. First, production quality is pretty darn good, and that's not cheap. If you want to reduce the cost that way, you'll get single camera quality on par with a state band show. No one wants that.

#2 - You're paying for licenses. Unlike most videos, you're getting charged for roughly 50 licenses. DCI is legal, and making a point of it. If you don't like it, get the laws changed so that marching ensembles don't have to pay license fees.

#3 - Distributing "free" videos does more harm with composers than anything else. Yes, you might get a potential customer to not buy, but in general, the piracy that gets people to not purchase DVDs is by distributing actual rips. That's blatantly illegal, and everyone knows it. It's on the ticket; you agree when you buy the ticket to not videotape. Can you get away with it? Probably, and it won't be high quality.

In the end, though, it's the people that write the music that must say it's ok for corps to arrange it. If that stuff gets on YouTube in low quality, composers feel like their stuff was bastardized. If you've ever created anything, and had it "redone" in an artistic intent you didn't have, it's painful.

So if you don't want DCI to become a public-domain-only musical environment, you shouldn't be recording. If you're going to ask someone, make sure they don't have credentials, of course. Feel free to point this out to an usher or employee; don't feel the need to be confrontational. And above all else, don't condone the distribution of this material, free or not. If it really is for personal use, you'll never see it online, right? Flag the YouTube stuff.

DCI, as best as I can tell, is trying to live by the rules, and is only asking people to do the same.

With thoughtful posts like this, you should come here more.

HH

[glory]

Side note...Has anyone ever been approached by someone with a bootleg copy of a drum corps recording and asked if you'd like to buy a copy?

I've been following drum corps since I was a kid. I marched two years, have gone to dozens of shows, and have known countless people who have recorded at a show. I've also been friends with, marched with, and rubbed elbows with potentially thousands of drum corps fans. I've never once been asked if I'd like to buy a copy of anything...never.

Not the point.

Bootleg video has a negative economic impact on DCI and on us. Bootleg raises the price of the geniune video to the extent that DCI and the corps waste money policing illegal copies on YouTube and other sites. Bootleg raises the price of genuine videos every time any single person decides to be content with the bootleg rather than pay for genuine. Any copies he provides his friends has the effect raising my price and yours yet again.

It's difficult to quantify the impact, which is why it feels harmless. But it's not.

HH