Dissonant Music in Shows

[MikeD]

Well.....if we use a sample (copy and paste link below in separate window)......and most of BD's show from this season.....a good portion of Spirt's show from this season as well. Those to me would be examples of significant dissonance. Certainly a lack of major chords.....means dissonance to me....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0...icial_Dance.mid

Major chords may also have dissonant notes. You can take a Major chord and add a 9th, 11th, 13th, etc...and is becomes dissonant. Heck, a C Major with an added 6th, used in jazz all the time, has a dissonant aspect as the A and G play off each other.

[Triple Forte]

I think you're confusing "dissonant" with "dark".

Probably a bit.....

I think of tension and unrest when I think of those two things....musically.

[ctrain08]

Triple Forte- I get where you're coming from. I can pretty much guarantee you that drum corps composers use dissonant chords to cover up tuning issues and bad musicianship in general. I think this trend really picked up around '07 and has only gotten worse. Frankly, I'm sick of it and can barely stand to watch drum corps shows these days. I've always been a music first guy myself and a traditionalist overall. There is so much great music out there that hasn't even been touched in the past that has the potential to make great drum corps shows, but year after year every show sounds basically the same. It got so bad for me that I don't even go to drum corps shows anymore. Every once and a while I'll look up some clips of recent shows on youtube, but that's about it. Seems like more of the same this year as well.

[do.it.up.]

I enjoy dissonance when I feel like it's being used effectively. So if it is indeed a trend a stay, cool!

[Lance]

Another important point is I enjoy moderation. Moderation is the key to everything (IMO).....and drum corps music is no different. I would not like to hear a bunch of corps perform a show (In the same season) that SCV did in 2009. SCV's show was unique....and enjoyable in a totally different way than lets say....the 2009 Cadets.

lots of dissonance in SCV 09, and in Copland's music in general.

[megadrive]

I think you're refering to dissonance that doesn't resolve.

[vhsmbdm]

Where's the handy dandy person who can go through the last 10 years of dci shows and count up the seconds of each program that have dissonance? Without them I fear this thread is DOOOOOMED!

[08ThunderBass5]

Now I think there's SCV/BD 2010 dissonance and then there's Eric Whitacre dissonance. I.E. suspended chords, tri-tones, 9th's 11th's 13ths etc.

IMHO, I really really love the type of dissonance you hear in "beautiful" music. For example Phantom Regiment 2003. I thought had lots of dissonance that resolved. Also, any corps that uses Eric Whitacre's music (Pieces such as Lux Arumque, Cloudburst, Sleep, When David Heard etc.) are other examples of dissonance that I love.

However, 20th century "out" dissonance (such as scv 2010) is not really my cup of tea. (and I am a HUGE scv fan).

I've had a lot of discussions with my composition professor at school about dissonance and literally...........it can be defined a thousand ways. I really like suspensions and tri-tones and like crunchy chords that resolve to something awesome. I think a lot of corps are taking advantage of that effect and audiences react pretty well to it. I'm not such a huge fan of just RIDICULOUS "out" crunchy chords that don't really have any obvious direction. Perhaps it's dissonance that according to music theory, makes sense, but to our ears it sounds like balls lol.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. I LOVE the topic of dissonance and it really fascinates me so it's cool to read your guy's opinions.

[Bruckner8]

Triple Forte- I get where you're coming from. I can pretty much guarantee you that drum corps composers use dissonant chords to cover up tuning issues and bad musicianship in general. I think this trend really picked up around '07 and has only gotten worse. Frankly, I'm sick of it and can barely stand to watch drum corps shows these days. I've always been a music first guy myself and a traditionalist overall. There is so much great music out there that hasn't even been touched in the past that has the potential to make great drum corps shows, but year after year every show sounds basically the same. It got so bad for me that I don't even go to drum corps shows anymore. Every once and a while I'll look up some clips of recent shows on youtube, but that's about it. Seems like more of the same this year as well.

are you aware that dissonant harmonies have multiple "correct" intonations?

Bad intonation from drum corps hornlines comes from player-to-player non-matching on the same notes. If you get 8 players to play concert C in tune together, and then get 8 other players to play concert B together, and then put the 16 players at the same time, you could take that minor second from equal temperament (RATIO of 2 / 2^11/12, or 1.0595), to just intonation (RATIO of 16 / 15, or 1.0667 [wider by approx 12 cents]), and others (ex, meantone temperaments), and the listener WILL HEAR IT AS IN TUNE.

Soooo...bad intonation is almost ALWAYS a function of players not matching within UNISONS. It has nothing to do with "perceived dissonance."

In fact, it's "common knowledge" in professional musical experience that says "the more people you put on the same notes [choirs, strings], the more likely it is to be perceived as in tune." This is called the "chorus effect." [look it up on wiki] Conversely, if you spread the players across more notes, it's easier to discern bad intonation, not to mention harder to play loud! This is what makes Blue Devils' brass trophies all the more remarkable, since they usually play much fuller harmonies (Jazz influence/Wayne's fancy) than the simple Western Classical Music or easy Pop Music played by almost everyone else. (Caveat: No one plays more unions and 5ths than Blue Devils...they know how to simplify for immediate effect! )

Phantom and Crown almost always sound "more in tune" than everyone else in the early season precisely because they sit on major/minor 1-3-5, super simple harmony all day/summer/winter/inception long. Have you heard Bluecoats this year? I think there's ONE loud 1-3-5 major chord in the entire show: hit in the ballad. Everything else is 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths or Mackey! That's called exposure, folks! No one in that hornline can hide! As soon as the judges figure all of this out, look out for Bloo.

[BigW]

are you aware that dissonant harmonies have multiple "correct" intonations?

Bad intonation from drum corps hornlines comes from player-to-player non-matching on the same notes. If you get 8 players to play concert C in tune together, and then get 8 other players to play concert B together, and then put the 16 players at the same time, you could take that minor second from equal temperament (RATIO of 2 / 2^11/12, or 1.0595), to just intonation (RATIO of 16 / 15, or 1.0667 [wider by approx 12 cents]), and others (ex, meantone temperaments), and the listener WILL HEAR IT AS IN TUNE.

Soooo...bad intonation is almost ALWAYS a function of players not matching within UNISONS. It has nothing to do with "perceived dissonance."

In fact, it's "common knowledge" in professional musical experience that says "the more people you put on the same notes [choirs, strings], the more likely it is to be perceived as in tune." This is called the "chorus effect." [look it up on wiki] Conversely, if you spread the players across more notes, it's easier to discern bad intonation, not to mention harder to play loud! This is what makes Blue Devils' brass trophies all the more remarkable, since they usually play much fuller harmonies (Jazz influence/Wayne's fancy) than the simple Western Classical Music or easy Pop Music played by almost everyone else. (Caveat: No one plays more unions and 5ths than Blue Devils...they know how to simplify for immediate effect! )

Phantom and Crown almost always sound "more in tune" than everyone else in the early season precisely because they sit on major/minor 1-3-5, super simple harmony all day/summer/winter/inception long. Have you heard Bluecoats this year? I think there's ONE loud 1-3-5 major chord in the entire show: hit in the ballad. Everything else is 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths or Mackey! That's called exposure, folks! No one in that hornline can hide! As soon as the judges figure all of this out, look out for Bloo.

Thank you for explaining that indeed, it's very hard top lock in a close-interval chord for a lot of reasons, and that those chords deserve a lot of credit when performed well.

And really, dissonance has been around in the activity for many, many years. Everyone seems to love the '93 Star show, which is chock-full of it. A lot of people like the '91 Devils show... "Bela and Bird in B-Flat" is not exactly cotton candy to the ears... What's the beef? And what's the beef with Bartok? He operates on a different musical vocabulary involving tonal clusters and modal writing to a large extent as well as Eastern European meter. If one looks at the back of a DCI brass sheet, Bartok's music checks off a lot of the things one looks for in a top analysis score, and also can be very exciting to boot.

Good writing uses a variety of chordal structures and colors. Judges look for a variety of style and such as an aspect of their evaluation.

Personally, dissonance in and of itself is not a key to making a show accessible or inaccessible. It's only one small factor that can turn on or turn off a listener....