Why Blue Devils Win

[oldtimedrummer]

1975.

I stand corrected.

[Matt_S]

I think I can speak intellectually about the music, with an MM and BS degrees, I'm a published arranger,

a championship ring in my drawer, and 35 years in the activity.

I know. I heard you the first time. And the time before that. And the time before that. And...

I don't think there is anyone on DCP who attempts to speak for others as often as you. The irony of it is, you use your credentials and your experience as though they are supposed to prove that you know what the audience wants. How many people in the average audience do you think have a DCI championship ring? How many do you think are published arrangers? How many do you think have been in the activity for 35 years? I'm guessing it's a small number indeed for any one of those accomplishments, let alone all three. You apparently feel the same way - I see no other reason why you continue to mention said accomplishments other than to claim yourself an expert, and more knowledgeable than the average fan.

Want to know my credentials? Ten years as a fan. It's not the 35 years you have, but it's all I need to be able to speak intelligibly about the shows I like and the shows I do not like. I don't have a degree in music, but I don't need it. As long as I continue to be entertained by what I see, then that's good enough for me. No amount of degrees or work experience on your part is going to change how I feel about a certain show. I'm not endorsing anti-intellectualism, only reminding you that entertainment is forever a subjective measure. You'd do well to remember that the next time you try to spout off with any certainty about the opinions of hundreds or thousands of people whom you will never meet.

[jjeffeory]

Not only is this not the first time I've read your resume on DCP, it's the second time you've brought it up in this topic.

Is there some reason for this? I mean, you're entitled to your opinion of course but is this supposed to make yours more valid than others?

We get it. You're "qualified", if we need an expert witness in court we'll be sure to call you.

I appreciate the view. People often say things like "you're not a judge, how could you know what you're talking about?"

Well, he's given us the credentials. Maybe we should at least hear what he's got to say before summarily dismissing his POV as uneducated?

[jjeffeory]

You're trying too hard. That's where the sex part comes in.

When you see a cirque show or some other visual extravaganza...do you really need a meaning?? Honestly??

It's like asking Bird to explain his last set.

Wait, Cirque has shows with many themes...

[oldtimedrummer]

I know. I heard you the first time. And the time before that. And the time before that. And...

I don't think there is anyone on DCP who attempts to speak for others as often as you. The irony of it is, you use your credentials and your experience as though they are supposed to prove that you know what the audience wants. How many people in the average audience do you think have a DCI championship ring? How many do you think are published arrangers? How many do you think have been in the activity for 35 years? I'm guessing it's a small number indeed for any one of those accomplishments, let alone all three. You apparently feel the same way - I see no other reason why you continue to mention said accomplishments other than to claim yourself an expert, and more knowledgeable than the average fan.

Want to know my credentials? Ten years as a fan. It's not the 35 years you have, but it's all I need to be able to speak intelligibly about the shows I like and the shows I do not like. I don't have a degree in music, but I don't need it. As long as I continue to be entertained by what I see, then that's good enough for me. No amount of degrees or work experience on your part is going to change how I feel about a certain show. I'm not professing anti-intellectualism, only reminding you that entertainment is forever a subjective measure. You'd do well to remember that the next time you try to spout off with any certainty about the opinions of hundreds or thousands of people whom you will never meet.

Good post, but don't be too hard on Bob. BD is putting him, and a lot of others, out of their comfort zone. Bob made some good points, and I understand where he's coming from. While I'm blown away by BD's show, there's still a part of me who would like to hear them blaze through "Love For Sale" or "Time check". Can we really blame him?

[Matt_S]

I have no problem with Bob speaking for himself. He can say whatever he wishes in that regard, and it would simply be a matter of two reasonable people disagreeing. What grates on me and prompted my post is his habit of claiming to speak for the audience at large. As a member of the audience who disagrees with Bob on nearly every show, I can assure you that he doesn't speak for me.

[Bob984]

I know. I heard you the first time. And the time before that. And the time before that. And...

I don't think there is anyone on DCP who attempts to speak for others as often as you. The irony of it is, you use your credentials and your experience as though they are supposed to prove that you know what the audience wants. How many people in the average audience do you think have a DCI championship ring? How many do you think are published arrangers? How many do you think have been in the activity for 35 years? I'm guessing it's a small number indeed for any one of those accomplishments, let alone all three. You apparently feel the same way - I see no other reason why you continue to mention said accomplishments other than to claim yourself an expert, and more knowledgeable than the average fan.

Want to know my credentials? Ten years as a fan. It's not the 35 years you have, but it's all I need to be able to speak intelligibly about the shows I like and the shows I do not like. I don't have a degree in music, but I don't need it. As long as I continue to be entertained by what I see, then that's good enough for me. No amount of degrees or work experience on your part is going to change how I feel about a certain show. I'm not endorsing anti-intellectualism, only reminding you that entertainment is forever a subjective measure. You'd do well to remember that the next time you try to spout off with any certainty about the opinions of hundreds or thousands of people whom you will never meet.

[Mello Dude]

I have no problem with Bob speaking for himself. He can say whatever he wishes in that regard, and it would simply be a matter of two reasonable people disagreeing. What grates on me and prompted my post is his habit of claiming to speak for the audience at large. As a member of the audience who disagrees with Bob on nearly every show, I can assure you that he doesn't speak for me.

Here's the problem Matt_S. Would you jump on someone that state's the same thing supporting your view? You can agree to disagree, that in itself is a good thing. What I find interesting and/or disturbing is the post counts on a few people (borrowing a term) "pumping sunshine" into every perceived thread that goes against their beliefs. From the banana crew derailing, to people that have 20k posts compared to the few post count people that come to speak up and get drowned out by a select few posting loads more.

[trumpetcam]

Good post, but don't be too hard on Bob. BD is putting him, and a lot of others, out of their comfort zone. Bob made some good points, and I understand where he's coming from. While I'm blown away by BD's show, there's still a part of me who would like to hear them blaze through "Love For Sale" or "Time check". Can we really blame him?

But isn't that the job of corps like BD? To keep pushing the envelope and try to elevate and evolve the activity to a new level? I mean, I would be the first that would like to hear that hornline rip La Fiesta or any Buddy tune again, but it's not gonna happen... The designers at BD have chosen to push the activity in a direction that inherently makes the musical aspect more of a complementary part than focal point. It sucks for many of us music lovers, but its just the way it is. I am sure the kids in the BD hornline would love to get screaming O's at shows and rip your head off with jazz, but it's part of their bigger picture now to fit into the system and I'm sure they do it gladly.

I personally think that we are coming to a crossroads with DCI and the fan base is getting ready to change dramatically in the next few years. I know we are pushing older fans and younger ones away as well, but the designers and judges are speaking more clearly each day. It's about artistry and pushing the envelope and if we expect its going back to music first anytime soon, we are mistaken.

I am sure the kids at BD know that if they go there, play well and perform their hearts out, they have a chance to win every year and be a part of a quality organization that treats them well and provides for them during their time as a member. Can you really blame any of them? I try to look at it as my job to also try and evolve and learn to appreciate new forms of art and see things in a different light. Most will not do that, but if I am going to be a fan of DCI for years to come, I need to grow as well. Otherwise, I am the crusty old dude who still complains about the 3 point shot, horse collar tackles and wishes for the tick system again..

To each his own I guess and I will push to at least hear the old favorites in encore year after year!

Edited July 14, 2010 by trumpetcam

[84BDsop]

I think I can speak intellectually about the music, with an MM and BS degrees, I'm a published arranger,

a championship ring in my drawer, and 35 years in the activity.

You're presuming BDUFLS doesn't have a similar background...his time in the activity is similar, and HE has a championship ring in his drawer, too...there are plenty of people on this board with similar credentials to you....you don't gain any cred by continually flaunting it....and a music degree and decades in music don't make you so qualified that it invalidates the feelings of others.