World Class Scores as of July 23

[Coathope]

I read your CI theory, on how judges appear unwilling to allow a Corps to win DCI unless somehow it was in the top 3 the year before... has to apparently earn their dues. with the judging community.

The corps can't win without having medaled in their past. Has nothing to do with the prior year, according to CI.

However, on July 19th, 2008, Phantom Regiment placed 4TH, several points off 1st place,( more than" 2 " pts here ).... 21 days later ( in the same year ) Phantom Regiment was crownd DCI Champion. The CI theory falls apart here.

The CI theory explains how Phantom Regiment could win by a small margin based on prior Finals placements. It doesn't relate to placements within a season.

[BRASSO]

You read wrong.

The corps has to place in the Top 3 in ANY PREVIOUS YEAR, not specifically the year before.

Phantom had numerous 2nd and 3rd place finishes prior to winning it in 1996, not to mention 2008.

ok.... that said, many of the same judges that judge the World Class also judge the Open Class. In order for this CI theory to work, it needs to be applied not selectively to one division within DCI, but to both.I think most would agree with this, correct ? Any theory must be applied across the board... UPWARD movement of Corps, and DOWNWARD movement of Corps ( it's not reasonable to apply it just to the upward movement alone), .... AND it should apply to the Open Class competition the last few decades as well to have much credence, imo.

So..... does the CI theory work in Open Class Competiton the last few decades as well ? Or do the judges who judge in both divisions not apply this CI theory to Open Class, just the other Division ? And what about DCA ? Some former DCI judges judge in DCA ? Does this CI theory work well there as well ? Or not ? And if not, why not ? Just asking, mind you.

Edited July 23, 2010 by BRASSO

[Bruckner8]

I read your CI theory, on how judges appear unwilling to allow a Corps to win DCI unless somehow it was in the top 3 the year before... has to apparently earn their dues with the judging community, and blah blah blah.

However, on July 19th, 2008, Phantom Regiment placed 4TH, several points off 1st place,( more than" 2 " pts here ).... 21 days later ( in the same year ) Phantom Regiment was crowned DCI Champion. The CI theory falls apart here. Also, one can not claim that .... "well, Phantom is an icon Corps, won it before, and thus judges could see fit to see that rise within 3 weeks time". If this was the case, then the judges likewise would have seen fit to NOT " see " Phantom as a Corps that could have plummeted in their eyes one year later to 9th place after winning it all the year before. In order for the CI theory to work, it would need to apply to the UPWARD move of a Corps every much as the DOWNWARD curve movement. It is the theory that needs to be scrubbed clean here, not the posters, as this CI theory of yours ( while intriguing ) doesn't pass the smell test, imo.

I give up.

[corpsband]

You make it sound so like their a bunch copy machines. I feel that all of the top tiers have extremely talented performers (they're extremely competitive for spots and that's the result).

Not sure where that's coming from. They make fewer execution errors than performers in other corps. Didn't call them copy machines. I think the question to ask is: why?

IMO the answer is two part:

One -- they are supremely committed to obtaining the extremely low error rate. Their performers are very talented and extremely well-versed in both the musical and visual technique programs the corps implements.

Two -- they write their books very intelligently. Every show is like a wine-tasting -- here taste this. here taste that, here taste this other thing. All of those "tastes" are carefully modulated to maximize opportunity for credit and minimize any chance to expose weakness. So every component of the show is exhibited in very controlled windows of exposure. In comparison, most other corps' books look over-written. BD does precisely as much as it takes to gain maximum credit in every caption and not a count or note more.

The audience may not always get it but the judges are completely wasted after sipping all those wines for 11 mins.

Having said that, if the show has not reached a comfort level by the time they start editing in the last few weeks they risk unfamiliarity and inability for "unconscious" performance. No one's better here, it just that BD has learned to pace themselves and not put their performers in that position...searching for the right ending or moment. Just look at PR 08 & PR 09, same pattern of change but one done methodically and the other in panic.

Pacing during the season is important. BD does it well. Are you trying to say that this is the key to BD's success?

Edited July 23, 2010 by corpsband

[BRASSO]

I give up.

ok.

[Bruckner8]

ok.... that said, many of the same judges that judge the World Class also judge the Open Class. In order for this CI theory to work, it needs to be applied not selectively to one division within DCI, but to both.I think most would agree with this, correct ? Any theory must be applied across the board... UPWARD movement of Corps, and DOWNWARD movement of Corps ( it's not reasonable to apply it just to the upward movement alone), .... AND it should apply to the Open Class competition the last few decades as well to have much credence, imo.

So..... does the CI theory work in Open Class Competiton the last few decades as well ? Or do the judges who judge in both divisions not apply this CI theory there ? And what about DCA ? Some DCI judges judge in DCA ? Does this CI theory work there as well ? Just asking, mind you.

I have no idea if it works elsewhere, since I don't care if it works elsewhere. It's not a universal law of multi-event judging, although my instinct says it could be! I don't care to try it out; don't have the time nor inclination. I merely observed the history from 1973-2007, saw patterns, and expounded upon them. 2008 and 2009 have done (and surely 2010 will do) nothing to challenge the base outcomes.

I was wrong about one thing already this year, based on CI: I predicted Bloo would beat Crown in Akron, AND THEN NEVER AGAIN THE REST OF THE SUMMER.

I was wrong. I love being wrong like that. It means Crown isn't really as good, and Bloo is actually a little better than everyone thought, on a given night. The only CI Crown has over Bloo is a Top 3 finish (2nd in 2009). That's HUGE....but it's not enough to put Crown over Bloo, unless it's very close. Lucky for Bloo, they've been CLEARLY BETTER in the shows in which they've won! CI only tells the judge what to do when it's close...and for Finals, only allows those that have finished in the Top 3 before to win.

[chasgroh]

You read wrong.

The corps has to place in the Top 3 in ANY PREVIOUS YEAR, not specifically the year before.

Phantom had numerous 2nd and 3rd place finishes prior to winning it in 1996, not to mention 2008.

Kevin: The BD of drum corps journalism.

cg

[jmc5682]

Does this years BD show get any standing O's? Does the crowd get into their show? Can you hum or whistle any of their music? How does this BD show score any GE? DCI needs a scoring caption for crowd reaction.

YES, YES, AND YES. The show I was at was in CA, so BD does get a lot of love. I am sorry you don't appreciate BD, but judging crowd reaction would be unfair since the big shows including DCI are in the heart of the midwest where BD is not as appreciated.

[Plan9]

Not sure where that's coming from. They make fewer execution errors than performers in other corps. Didn't call them copy machines. I think the question to ask is: why?

IMO the answer is two part:

One -- they are supremely committed to obtaining the extremely low error rate. Their performers are very talented and extremely well-versed in both the musical and visual technique programs the corps implements.

Two -- they write their books very intelligently. Every show is like a wine-tasting -- here taste this. here taste that, here taste this other thing. All of those "tastes" are carefully modulated to maximize opportunity for credit and minimize any chance to expose weakness. So every component of the show is exhibited in very controlled windows of exposure. In comparison, most other corps' books look over-written. BD does precisely as much as it takes to gain maximum credit in every caption and not a count or note more.

The audience may not always get it but the judges are completely wasted after sipping all those wines for 11 mins.

Pacing during the season is important. BD does it well. Are you trying to say that this is the key to BD's success?

It's a component of their success but not exclusive to them. It just appears that in an effort to compete with a dominant BD, some of the top tiers are pushing the envelop not with "new" but with more "difficult old". CC last year (and I like their show), used a little bit of both, where Cadets was balls to wall old school. In using last year as that example, both CC and Cadets took their performers to the edge of their capability (perhaps any performers capability) and made changes while some were still trying to get comfortable with the more recent sets. This is my only point here. Not better or worse....just demands by the designers done out of sync. By the way, this is a very good post on your part.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Plan9

[THeShadeOfNight]

ok.... that said, many of the same judges that judge the World Class also judge the Open Class. In order for this CI theory to work, it needs to be applied not selectively to one division within DCI, but to both.I think most would agree with this, correct ? Any theory must be applied across the board... UPWARD movement of Corps, and DOWNWARD movement of Corps ( it's not reasonable to apply it just to the upward movement alone), .... AND it should apply to the Open Class competition the last few decades as well to have much credence, imo.

So..... does the CI theory work in Open Class Competiton the last few decades as well ? Or do the judges who judge in both divisions not apply this CI theory to Open Class, just the other Division ? And what about DCA ? Some former DCI judges judge in DCA ? Does this CI theory work well there as well ? Or not ? And if not, why not ? Just asking, mind you.

That's like saying "if chocolate ice cream requires vanilla ice cream to be created, ALL flavors require vanilla to be made". He even mentioned the theory was World Class specific.

But, if you're trolling,

0/10. Try harder.