Would you walk away if DCI shows were like in the 80s and 90s

[supersop]

Limitations. Interesting point above. Let's examine it more in the context of drum and bugle corps.

The limitations of the instruments made it hard to play in tune.

The limitation of only having 2 valves made it harder to arrange for.

The limitation of not having amplification made it necessary for pits to use harder mallets and the brass books carried much more of the melodic and harmonic meat of the show.

The limitations of peaks and valleys with regards to visual pacing made it possible to play the books that were written.

The limitations of peaks and valleys with regards to visual pacing made it possible to execute movement at a much more precise level of proficiency.

The limitations of not having synthesizers and sound samples required the designers to be creative in how they reproduced a desired sound for effect.

The limitations of mylar heads required percussionists to stroke the majority of their book, play through the head and not rely on rebound.

The limitations of not having computers and Pyware to write drill required the skill level of the designer to be superior, in that they could visualize all elements of the visual program in their head as they were writing it with no visual aid. (that's my tip of the cap to Brubaker, Zingali and Sylvester)

The LIMITATIONS of the 80's and prior is what made drum and bugle corps (in it's purist form) so great. It was harder mentally and musically. It was harder to design for. I will grant that it wasnt' harder physically ... depending on where you marched. It is the limitations that the purists embrace. It should have been embraced by those in power within DCI in order to keep the idiom pure and separate from other forms of marching music. The limitations are the reason my ipod is filled with shows prior to 1995 ..... and rarely much from beyond that. Why? Because it's actually worth listening to.

[Sam98]

Why? You don't like this years new title from corps x. This years show will be titled, "Palpable feelings of neurotic monks on planet Mars, with mirrors and a door in three phases of moon." With snippets of unrecognizable music by thirty eight different composers. Now sit back as we blastingly resort to putting you into the nicest deepest tranquil sleep you ever had.

LOL--THAT'S what I'm talking about! Don't forget the "emoting" of the guard that cannot be seen from a distance of more than 50 feet from the field.

[WOOHOO]

wow. really?????

I could say the exact same thing back to you, but one opinion is not more right than another, so let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

[JimFoster]

Jeff, you bring not only a great question, but THE question. Mulling it over, however gives me a headache. I don't believe than ANY of the upper echelon corps will return to an older style because bucking the established norm in almost ANY activity will get you burned. Also, while a major boycott would hurt DCI where it counts, in the wallet, it would also hurt the current marching members. Do we call it "tough love" and stay away? Shrugging our shoulders and blindly following drum corps into even further obscurity and eventual disappearance is not acceptable either.

Maybe staying away is the answer. As a father, I look out for what I believe is my kids' best interests. I may have to intervene by either doing something or not doing something to teach them an important lesson. To guide them in the right direction. Is this the approach to take? Do we simply boycott one show (maybe Finals week?), one season or just not go back until changes are made? Doing so may hurt me more than the activity, but then again, isn't that what "tough love" is all about?

I don't possess the vision of how the activity should move forward. While I would definitely prefer to see many changes revoked, I also think that changes in the way we do things will move the activity forward.

I would like to propose a summit meeting of sorts. We would have to organize, come up with a specific agenda (more then "to save drum corps") and plan action from there. Would such a thing be possible? I would like to find out.

[JimFoster]

Limitations. Interesting point above. Let's examine it more in the context of drum and bugle corps.

The limitations of the instruments made it hard to play in tune.

The limitation of only having 2 valves made it harder to arrange for.

The limitation of not having amplification made it necessary for pits to use harder mallets and the brass books carried much more of the melodic and harmonic meat of the show.

The limitations of peaks and valleys with regards to visual pacing made it possible to play the books that were written.

The limitations of peaks and valleys with regards to visual pacing made it possible to execute movement at a much more precise level of proficiency.

The limitations of not having synthesizers and sound samples required the designers to be creative in how they reproduced a desired sound for effect.

The limitations of mylar heads required percussionists to stroke the majority of their book, play through the head and not rely on rebound.

The limitations of not having computers and Pyware to write drill required the skill level of the designer to be superior, in that they could visualize all elements of the visual program in their head as they were writing it with no visual aid. (that's my tip of the cap to Brubaker, Zingali and Sylvester)

The LIMITATIONS of the 80's and prior is what made drum and bugle corps (in it's purist form) so great. It was harder mentally and musically. It was harder to design for. I will grant that it wasnt' harder physically ... depending on where you marched. It is the limitations that the purists embrace. It should have been embraced by those in power within DCI in order to keep the idiom pure and separate from other forms of marching music. The limitations are the reason my ipod is filled with shows prior to 1995 ..... and rarely much from beyond that. Why? Because it's actually worth listening to.

Thank you for reminding me of so many reasons I loved marching when I did. Though I don't consider myself a purist, I couldn't disagree with a single point here. So how do we go about recapturing some of that magic?

[WOOHOO]

Jeff, you bring not only a great question, but THE question. Mulling it over, however gives me a headache. I don't believe than ANY of the upper echelon corps will return to an older style because bucking the established norm in almost ANY activity will get you burned. Also, while a major boycott would hurt DCI where it counts, in the wallet, it would also hurt the current marching members. Do we call it "tough love" and stay away? Shrugging our shoulders and blindly following drum corps into even further obscurity and eventual disappearance is not acceptable either.

Maybe staying away is the answer. As a father, I look out for what I believe is my kids' best interests. I may have to intervene by either doing something or not doing something to teach them an important lesson. To guide them in the right direction. Is this the approach to take? Do we simply boycott one show (maybe Finals week?), one season or just not go back until changes are made? Doing so may hurt me more than the activity, but then again, isn't that what "tough love" is all about?

I don't possess the vision of how the activity should move forward. While I would definitely prefer to see many changes revoked, I also think that changes in the way we do things will move the activity forward.

I would like to propose a summit meeting of sorts. We would have to organize, come up with a specific agenda (more then "to save drum corps") and plan action from there. Would such a thing be possible? I would like to find out.

Historically, when has a "top echelon" corps gone back to an old style and expect to win? You could argue that Madison did it in '88 (even though they did a lot to win that year in three days essentially), but even their presentation of the "old style" was within the realm of modern sensibilities for the time, and that's what winners have to do.

[JimFoster]

Historically, when has a "top echelon" corps gone back to an old style and expect to win? You could argue that Madison did it in '88 (even though they did a lot to win that year in three days essentially), but even their presentation of the "old style" was within the realm of modern sensibilities for the time, and that's what winners have to do.

That WAS an amazing show and one of my personal favorites. GREAT example, thanks.

[Jeff Ream]

Limitations. Interesting point above. Let's examine it more in the context of drum and bugle corps.

The limitations of the instruments made it hard to play in tune.

The limitation of only having 2 valves made it harder to arrange for.

The limitation of not having amplification made it necessary for pits to use harder mallets and the brass books carried much more of the melodic and harmonic meat of the show.

The limitations of peaks and valleys with regards to visual pacing made it possible to play the books that were written.

The limitations of peaks and valleys with regards to visual pacing made it possible to execute movement at a much more precise level of proficiency.

The limitations of not having synthesizers and sound samples required the designers to be creative in how they reproduced a desired sound for effect.

The limitations of mylar heads required percussionists to stroke the majority of their book, play through the head and not rely on rebound.

The limitations of not having computers and Pyware to write drill required the skill level of the designer to be superior, in that they could visualize all elements of the visual program in their head as they were writing it with no visual aid. (that's my tip of the cap to Brubaker, Zingali and Sylvester)

The LIMITATIONS of the 80's and prior is what made drum and bugle corps (in it's purist form) so great. It was harder mentally and musically. It was harder to design for. I will grant that it wasnt' harder physically ... depending on where you marched. It is the limitations that the purists embrace. It should have been embraced by those in power within DCI in order to keep the idiom pure and separate from other forms of marching music. The limitations are the reason my ipod is filled with shows prior to 1995 ..... and rarely much from beyond that. Why? Because it's actually worth listening to.

man i'd love to see this presented at a BOD meeting

[Jeff Ream]

over 4000 people signed a petition to keep amplification out of drum corps. it was even presented to a BOD meeting by one of the organizers. To say DCi was kind in allowing to be presented would be an understatement. I give DCI all the kudos in the world for allowing it to be presented.

But it went pretty much ignored, and by some, quietly laughed at.

You're right we have a dillema, and a big one. I know this coming year, i'll probably be at Allentown and that's it. I hate the dome. I'll have the Fan Network and if possible, maybe a local show.

This is down, from 10 years ago. then it was Allentown, several local shows and finals week.

And thats with a few years where I didn't go to anything.

and since the powers that be all seem to talk about needing more money, really, the only way they will get the point is if people do stay away. we can ##### on here, they don't care. why? we still pay to come.

the downside is not going will hurt the corps and the kids...could be fatal. no one wants that, but despite a few naysayers on here, fan dissatisfaction continues to grow, and since the leaders keep saying they need more money, and DCI hasn't released any kind of attendance numbers since 07, it's clear enough people have walked away to make a dent.

the problem is, more will keep walking, and there isn't enough out there to replace them. the band market will not drag in enough diehards to replace those long gone.

you cant tell the leaders that tho. all of their changes, in their eyes made it better...yet it's becoming harder and harder to fund it all.

there's a disconnect there, and the shame is the people in charge fail to see it. they wanted natioal touring, they got it. yet they complain about the cost of touring. they wanted all these toys and rules changes...yet fans are growing disenchanted. they wanted a dome, yet attendance is basically what Jackson MS had, the worst finals venue ever.

from my eyes, there's a segment of drum corps missing the issue. the problem is, those are the people in control.

Jeff, you bring not only a great question, but THE question. Mulling it over, however gives me a headache. I don't believe than ANY of the upper echelon corps will return to an older style because bucking the established norm in almost ANY activity will get you burned. Also, while a major boycott would hurt DCI where it counts, in the wallet, it would also hurt the current marching members. Do we call it "tough love" and stay away? Shrugging our shoulders and blindly following drum corps into even further obscurity and eventual disappearance is not acceptable either.

Maybe staying away is the answer. As a father, I look out for what I believe is my kids' best interests. I may have to intervene by either doing something or not doing something to teach them an important lesson. To guide them in the right direction. Is this the approach to take? Do we simply boycott one show (maybe Finals week?), one season or just not go back until changes are made? Doing so may hurt me more than the activity, but then again, isn't that what "tough love" is all about?

I don't possess the vision of how the activity should move forward. While I would definitely prefer to see many changes revoked, I also think that changes in the way we do things will move the activity forward.

I would like to propose a summit meeting of sorts. We would have to organize, come up with a specific agenda (more then "to save drum corps") and plan action from there. Would such a thing be possible? I would like to find out.

[JimF-LowBari]

man i'd love to see this presented at a BOD meeting

IIRC, one of the "reasons" given for more toys (forget if if it was voice, electronics or sumthin' else) was that the designers are running out of ideas to keep things fresh/new/relevant/whatever. IOW - no limitations... we need new STUFF...

Yeah, one thing I was proud about corps was that we could make beautiful music with the limitations of horns and drums only, basically 2 valves and way the horns were made.

Edited September 28, 2010 by JimF-LowBari