lindap Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 As with many discussions of "art", this one seems to be going in circles. It may be worth noting that Mr. Sondheim adresses the topic of "the art of making art" in "Putting it Together", from "Sunday in the Park". Everyone is entitled to make his own art and to hold his own opinion, but if you want others to care about what you do it sure helps to invite them in. No disrepect intended. This caught me eye and ear, imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 (edited) ok Plan...what are the attendance numbers? That leads to the money. Pre Indy, DCI crowed numbers, some in very creative spin ways (i.e. like events year to year, adding in shows previously run by DCM).if numbers were so great, why on earth would DCI not show them? It'd shut us all up. Any SMART business brags when it's time to brag, and some businesses are smart enough to not brag when things arent that great...and it seems DCI falls into that category. Plus, the talk in the Januals about trying to stop the loss of fans. It would appear even DCI is somewhat acknowledging fans have left/are leaving. Hence the newfound openness with the Roundtables. Sure, to some, it may be PR veneer that's too late...I'll choose to look at as PR that's finally happening if long overdue I tell you Jeff, I see it differently (what a shocker). Based on what I've read on these boards, attendance is up rather than down. I know from personally attending 4 regionals that they were full and appeared more than 2 previous years. I can't provide scientific evidence, but I would not remotely be touting gloom and doom, it just doesn't track. I know many on here would love reality to fit their agenda (wishes for DCI changes) but it ain't happening yet. Also, making any connection with loss of fans and DCI's new found openess in pure conjecture. In my view, DCI is reacting to the "shot across their bow" with the G7 proposal. They had no choice, it was just too loud and by some very important voices. Evidence the sudden strategy of sending two top 7 corps west. I expect that other items on the list will mysteriously begin to emerge as we head further into the 2010's (assuming it's done as one organization). Edited November 12, 2010 by Plan9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I tell you Jeff, I see it differently (what a shocker). Based on what I've read on these boards, attendance is up rather than down. I know from personally attending 4 regionals that they were full and appeared more than 2 previous years. I can't provide scientific evidence, but I would not remotely be touting gloom and doom, it just doesn't track. I know many on here would love reality to fit their agenda (wishes for DCI changes) but it ain't happening yet. Also, making any connection with loss of fans and DCI's new found openess in pure conjecture. In my view, DCI is reacting to the "shot across their bow" with the G7 proposal. They had no choice, it was just too loud and by some very important voices. Evidence the sudden strategy of sending two top 7 corps west. I expect that other items on the list will mysteriously begin to emerge as we head further into the 2010's (assuming it's done as one organization). > ... attendance is up rather than down. I know from personally attending 4 regionals that they were full and appeared more than 2 previous years. True! While the Finals attendance itself might be smaller, the aggregate attendance combining all DCI shows is up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I completely agree. Change should come naturally as younger members and fans tastes evolve. We shouldn't have one "Creativity Crusader" trying to force things down the throats of the masses. Change itself is slow, yes. But the instigation of every change came from those "Crusaders" who were thought to be forcing things down peoples throats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Change itself is slow, yes. But the instigation of every change came from those "Crusaders" who were thought to be forcing things down peoples throats. And for each and every successful change there are many mis-steps along the way that make people think "What the hell were they thinking?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I tell you Jeff, I see it differently (what a shocker). Based on what I've read on these boards, attendance is up rather than down. I know from personally attending 4 regionals that they were full and appeared more than 2 previous years. I can't provide scientific evidence, but I would not remotely be touting gloom and doom, it just doesn't track. I know many on here would love reality to fit their agenda (wishes for DCI changes) but it ain't happening yet. Also, making any connection with loss of fans and DCI's new found openess in pure conjecture. In my view, DCI is reacting to the "shot across their bow" with the G7 proposal. They had no choice, it was just too loud and by some very important voices. Evidence the sudden strategy of sending two top 7 corps west. I expect that other items on the list will mysteriously begin to emerge as we head further into the 2010's (assuming it's done as one organization). I'M SHOCKED however...if attendance was up....why aren't they crowing it, especially given DCI could use some good press after the G7/8 mess? I know the regional I attended was down, and when you take away kids with wristbands, finals was up maybe. And my agenda is for DCI to thrive ( and be more open and honest tho they have made some headway there). I don't want it to fail. Even if I hate some shows, I've always hated some shows, and DCI was doing better. however...you claim conjecture when it comes to openness...come on man, I know you haven't been around that long, but it was easier getting military secrets than it was info from DCI until the last 16 months....which is about the time people really started getting loud about things.This stratgey of openness started after Indy 09, when many fans got vocal, long before the G7 thing was more than just aHopkins pipedream from 1997. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I'M SHOCKED however...if attendance was up....why aren't they crowing it, especially given DCI could use some good press after the G7/8 mess? I know the regional I attended was down, and when you take away kids with wristbands, finals was up maybe. And my agenda is for DCI to thrive ( and be more open and honest tho they have made some headway there). I don't want it to fail. Even if I hate some shows, I've always hated some shows, and DCI was doing better. however...you claim conjecture when it comes to openness...come on man, I know you haven't been around that long, but it was easier getting military secrets than it was info from DCI until the last 16 months....which is about the time people really started getting loud about things.This stratgey of openness started after Indy 09, when many fans got vocal, long before the G7 thing was more than just aHopkins pipedream from 1997. I copied and pasted no worries, I won't post like this again, found a few more pictures though; btw I liked 2010 including Cascades Tomorrow BARBRA STREISAND "Putting It Together" [From "Sunday In The Park With George"] [barbra:] Look, I've spent a lot of time working on this [Producer 1:] Look, no one's gonna buy it -- no one. [Producer 2:] No one in Middle America, anyway. That's for sure. [Producer 3:] He's right! [Producer 1:] Sweetheart, it's just not commercial! [barbra:] What is commercial? [Producer 2:] It's not what's selling nowadays. [Producer 1:] I mean - personally, I love it, but [barbra (sung):]Be nice, girl! [Producer 3:] Nobody's into this kind of material. [barbra (sung):] You have to pay a price, girl! [Producer 2:] This album needs a hit single we can push. [barbra (sung):]They like to give advice, girl! [Producer 1:] The whole idea's too risky. [barbra (sung):] Don't think about it twice, girl! [Producer 2:] The audience won't understand this kind of thing! [barbra (sung):]It's time to get to work! Barbra (spoken): I disagree! Why don't you wait until you hear it? [Producer 3:] This is like your old stuff! [barbra (sung):] Art isn't easy. [Producer 3:] You've got to appeal to the kids. [barbra (sung):] Even when you're hot. [Producer 2:] Why would you want to make an album like this anyway? [barbra (sung):] Advancing art is easy. [Producer 1:] I think we ought to talk seriously about this. [barbra (sung):] Financing it is not! [Producer 2:] Why take chances? [barbra (sung):] A vision's just a vision if it's only in your head! [Producer 1:] Nobody respects your artistic integrity more than I do, but [barbra (sung):] If no one gets to hear it, it's as good as dead! [Producer 2:] You have to think about you career! [barbra (sung):] It has to come to life! Bit by bit, putting it together Piece by piece, only way to make a work of art Every moment makes a contribution Every little detail plays a parts Having just a vision's no solution Everything depends on execution Putting it together, that's what counts! Ounce by ounce, putting in together Small amounts, adding up to make a work of art First of all you need a good foundation Otherwise it's risky from the start Takes a little cocktail conversation But without the proper preparation Having just a vision's no solution Everything depends on execution The art of making art Is putting it together, bit by bit [Producer 2:] Do we really need all these musicians? [barbra:] Link by link, making the connections, yes we do! Drink by drink, taking every comment as it comes Learning how to play the politician Like you play piano, bass and drums Otherwise you'll find your composition Isn't gonna get much exhibition Art isn't easy Every minor detail is a major decision Have to keep things in scale Have to hold to your vision [Producer 1:] Why don't we talk about this over dinner, darling? What's a little cocktail conversation If it gets the funds for your foundation Every time I start to feel defensive I remember vinyl is expensive! [Producer 3:] Would you agree to do an interview? [barbra:] Maybe one! Dot by dot, building up the image Shot by shot, keeping at a distance doesn't pay Still if you remember your objective Not give all your privacy away A little bit of hype can be effective As long as you can keep it in perspective Even when you get some recognition Everything you do you still audition Art isn't easy Overnight you're a trend You're the right combination Then the trend's at an end You're suddenly last year's sensation! All they ever want is repetition All they really like is what they know Gotta keep a link with your tradition Gotta learn to trust your intuition While you re-establish your position So that you can be on exhibit... So that your work can be on exhibition! Be new, girl! They tell you till they're blue, girl! You're new, or else you're through, girl! And even if it's true, girl, You do what you can do! Bit by bit, Putting it together Piece by piece, working on the vision night and day All it takes is time and perseverance With a little luck along the way Putting in a personal appearance Gathering supporters and adherents... [Producer 1:] Well, she's an original! [Producer 3:] WAS! [barbra:] Mapping out the songs but in addition Harmonizing each negotiation Balancing the part that's all musicians With the part that's strictly presentation Balancing the money with the mission Till you have the perfect orchestration Even if you do have the suspicion That it's taking all your concentration The art of making art Is putting it together, bit by bit Beat by beat, part by part Sheet by sheet, chart by chart Track by track, bit by bit, Reel by reel, pout by pout Stack by stack, snit by snit, meal by meal, shout by shout Deal by deal, spat by spat Shpiel by shpiel, doubt by doubt And that... Is the state of the art! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Tanji Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 "The dumbing down of the country reflects itself on Broadway. The shows get dumber, and the public gets used to them." - Stephen Sondheim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 (edited) "The dumbing down of the country reflects itself on Broadway. The shows get dumber, and the public gets used to them." He's just an elitist. If only they were doing Broadway shows where music came first, like "Babes in Arms", and "Mexican Hayride"* (*yes, Babes in Arms DOES have amazing music - and an embarrassingly inane book. Think of it as having a great score and a 1970s drill... ) Edited November 13, 2010 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadep66 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 (edited) I think network TV does get dumber over time, but there are shows like Breaking Bad, MadMen, True Blood, etc. that people can turn to to get away from the lowest common denominator. "Spring Awakening" blew me away, and much like "Rent" did when it premiered, turned broadway on its head. There are plenty of shows that spoon-feed the audience as well as those that require a little thought. I personally think there are plenty of corps shows that are popcorn eater entertaining as well as those that are a bit more difficult to understand. I took a few newbies to some shows in the past few years and they loved more than they disliked having known nothing about the medium or for that matter, much of the content. I believe we who have followed DCI for years see things that we like and those we don't and it's easy to focus on the bad, or see trends, or think its going downhill. Confirmation bias here. I love Sondheim, but there are plenty of folks who want 32 bar songs and tidy plots that don't require much effort. Edited November 14, 2010 by Wadep66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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