Pioneer

[KeithHall]

I think that Blue Stars did the right thing in staying in a class that they could be competitive in until it was obviously the right time to move up and compete in World Class. A small corps and 10 points behind the next corps at the start is not good for the members, staff or management. It could be disappointing to claim the lowest score at every show you compete in. Why subject kids to this when you can be so much more positive in another class?

[NR_Ohiobando]

I think that Blue Stars did the right thing in staying in a class that they could be competitive in until it was obviously the right time to move up and compete in World Class. A small corps and 10 points behind the next corps at the start is not good for the members, staff or management. It could be disappointing to claim the lowest score at every show you compete in. Why subject kids to this when you can be so much more positive in another class?

Then you lose the allure and attention of being World Class where you tour the whole country!

And in all honesty, it took Blue Stars what, 20 years to get back to where they are now? I'd rather Pio stick it out and try and improve themselves like Troopers did these past few years. Don't tell me it's not possible!

Besides they've stuck around this long with people constantly putting them down, I don't think it'd be right to give up now! Magic had a small hornline in 96 that packed a punch, Seattle's hornline was small last year, I don't see why they should drop!

All I've gotta say to Pioneer is this:

#1) Better every day

#2) BRING BACK THE MID-90's UNIFORMS AND YOU'LL SEE A JUMP IN INTEREST!!!

And another thing, Pio is one of the few corps that offers spots to marchers from other countries with much less experience just about every year. They almost always have South African membership with VERY little experience in marching/playing.

Edited June 22, 2011 by NR_Ohiobando

[noneofyourbusiness]

I think that Blue Stars did the right thing in staying in a class that they could be competitive in until it was obviously the right time to move up and compete in World Class. A small corps and 10 points behind the next corps at the start is not good for the members, staff or management. It could be disappointing to claim the lowest score at every show you compete in. Why subject kids to this when you can be so much more positive in another class?

The huge difference is that the Blue Stars made a big commitment after the 2003 season to make the changes necessary to make the successful leap from perennial Div III champ to WC finalist. They changed everything, from Executive Director on down, and have made changes as needed every year since then to assure their continuous improvement. A friend of mine is in the organization and he said they've even made changes in areas such as the way they treat/value their volunteers, communication to the alumni, titles for their "student summer help" (ie., interns, now admins), etc. to make sure that they are always moving forward.

[AlexL]

Then you lose the allure and attention of being World Class where you tour the whole country!

Exactly what allure is pioneer getting being dead last year after year after year, looking like they dont belong? At some point you have to think that every year they continue in that positioning they are only making their 'brand' worse.

And in all honesty, it took Blue Stars what, 20 years to get back to where they are now? I'd rather Pio stick it out and try and improve themselves like Troopers did these past few years. Don't tell me it's not possible!

There was a 20 year gap in there, yes, but there is no reason it would have to be that long for Pio if they didnt want to. Blue Stars established a plan in 2003 to return to div 1 and finals. From that point on every year has been a marked improvement over the prior year, and it took 5 years to get to their first 8th place finals finish.

And another thing, Pio is one of the few corps that offers spots to marchers from other countries with much less experience just about every year. They almost always have South African membership with VERY little experience in marching/playing.

Because they want to, or because they have to? When you can barely attract members (judging by the numbers being reported) the bar is lowered. The top corps have no reason to accept members with little experience, because they have multiple applicants for every opening, and most of them have solid levels of experience. If 80 highly qualified, highly experienced brass members auditioned for Pio next year, theyre unlikely to turn any of them away (assuming the numbers are right by section) in favor of bringing in someone with little to no experience. B

Edited June 22, 2011 by AlexL

[PioneerWebmaster]

I think that Blue Stars did the right thing in staying in a class that they could be competitive in until it was obviously the right time to move up and compete in World Class. A small corps and 10 points behind the next corps at the start is not good for the members, staff or management. It could be disappointing to claim the lowest score at every show you compete in. Why subject kids to this when you can be so much more positive in another class?

I think this is probably one of the most frequently asked questions. A lot of it has to do with appearance fees. World class corps get paid while open class don't. Not to mention, the actual touring experience is much better as a world class corps (more shows = better experience).

I spent the evening watching the corps rehearse at Pioneerland last week and was quite impressed with the group. Yes, the corps is small, but that hasn't stopped other groups from being successful in the past. The staff is excited about the corps, the show, and the season in general. The members are excited as well. Overall, there isn't a sense of concern or urgency. They know what they're up against. In fact, when it became clear a month back that the numbers were going to be smaller than expected, changes were executed to maximize the size of the corps. There's still a handful of people being worked into the drill, but I fully expect the show to start cleaning up in a hurry. Small numbers with a world class staff should translate into fairly quick cleaning.

Another thing, and this is somewhat of an interesting stat, but this is probably the oldest corps that Pioneer has seen on the field ever. Roman crunched the numbers the other day and the average age is well over 19. With a little older and experienced members, the cleaning process should move a little smoother!

[KeithHall]

World Class gets appearance fees and Open doesn't, you say! So it's all about money?

If I were a show sponsor and wanted corps at my show I wouldn't pay the money to a World Class corps that is at the bottom of the standings. No offense here but I am just saying....If I am going to shell out $20,000 for a show, then I want some good corps so that I get more at the gate.

Of course I can look at it this way....if a last place corps is on the field, more people will go to the concession stands. I hate to say it like that but it is true.

Maybe the Blue Star Plan is something that should be looked at.

[KeithHall]

World Class gets appearance fees and Open doesn't, you say! So it's all about money?

If I were a show sponsor and wanted corps at my show I wouldn't pay the money to a World Class corps that is at the bottom of the standings. No offense here but I am just saying....If I am going to shell out $20,000 for a show, then I want some good corps so that I get more at the gate.

Of course I can look at it this way....if a last place corps is on the field, more people will go to the concession stands. I hate to say it like that but it is true.

Maybe the Blue Star Plan is something that should be looked at.

[c.l.]

Drum corps costs a lot of money, and not everyone lives in that area. If they do, they're going to try out for Madison (if they're a guy of course). Pioneer did respectable in 2000 by beating some corps, of course there were more corps back then but that doesn't change anything. It's a good thing they are around, as the same can't be said for Tarheel Sun, Kiwanis Kavaliers, Southwind, and other corps that were around just ten years ago.

(I noticed that it's obvious that "well of course they're around and others aren't anymore, duh")

Edited June 22, 2011 by c.l.

[Lynsew]

World Class gets appearance fees and Open doesn't, you say! So it's all about money?

If I were a show sponsor and wanted corps at my show I wouldn't pay the money to a World Class corps that is at the bottom of the standings. No offense here but I am just saying....If I am going to shell out $20,000 for a show, then I want some good corps so that I get more at the gate.

Of course I can look at it this way....if a last place corps is on the field, more people will go to the concession stands. I hate to say it like that but it is true.

Maybe the Blue Star Plan is something that should be looked at.

If they were to drop back to open class, then you would just start looking at the other corps that are down with Pioneer. Either way, someone has to come in first, and others in last. Leave it alone already.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Lynsew

[KeithHall]

Please don't think of my posts as a negative...just trying to say that going Open Class isn't a bad thing. The change might be better. BTW when Blue Stars and Troopers were mentioned...lets understand something...Blue Stars and Troopers were top 12 corps once upon a time. Pioneer was never a top 12 corps.

Should changes be made? I'm not the person to say yes or no. But a plan should be in place because if they have a plan now...it isn't working. Of course, unless that plan is to just put out any size and type of corps.

I wish the corps much success, always have and always will.