jjeffeory Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 so we should wait and see to find out what kind of change this is... Well, that's one way to handle it, but some may argue that the act of the change will ruin what is great and make it less great. It may be difficult to change back, depending on the change. Basically, I'm happy to see that there are Cadet alums who love the idea and image of their corps that they are getting this riled up about the uniform. Personally, I think the idea of a corps the caliber of the Cadets doing something similar to Sky Ryders' 1987 (with the uniforms) for 1 season is pretty cool, if they keep it simple. I appreciate the POV of some of the alums, too. It's hard to be competitive, I guess, for GH with his ideas. We have to remember that the Cadets or any corps isn't a committee, and there are only a certain number of people that shape what these corps do. When they do it well, it's genius. When they don't it's crap. It seems that this would be a place ( uniform) not to screw up with the Cadets. Uh, it's complicated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 so we should wait and see to find out what kind of change this is... I'm sure we will... And in the meantime, we'll talk about what we do know, based on past patterns and prior knowledge - it's not rocket science. Is it a productive use of time? Are we saving the world here? nope, but i dont think there's anyone claiming otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I know you don't take well to reason. You know, what you know Charlie1223, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetiredJedi Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) I just don't agree with the POV that any 'thing' defines who a Cadet is, that's all. FHNSAB...that defines the Cadets to me I'm with you to a point, Mike. The uniform doesn't define "who" a Cadet is. It defines "WHAT". It's what the uniform represents. Does that make sense? I think I'm done now. I'm over it. Edited March 8, 2011 by RetiredJedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassEXPERT Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 It has been said that alumni are upset that age-outs with the Cadets and rookies are not going to be able to share in the tradition of wearing the west point style uniform. This is very true, and does bring a legitimate argument to the table that should be looked over. However, how would you like your age-out year to be remembered as the one in which alumni embarrassed the corps and the members by bad mouthing their corps director and direction of the drum corps to the entire internet? Look, the fact is that the concern is legitimate and the information to back it up is WELL recognized by the members of the DCP community, but more importantly, larger drum corps community as a whole. It really sucks that some kid was excited about being a part of something that they thought was special, something they thought was going to push the envelope once again, as many Cadet corps have done previous, and now has to deal with this influx of harmful comments. I took a look at the Cadets facebook page and am quite alarmed at the lengths some alumni are going to in order to convey their opinions. I really think e-mail conversations with the administration and powers within the Cadets would be much more effective than littering online forums with this waste. I was going to stop posting on this thread because it is obvious that stubborn alumni will feel a certain way, which they are totally welcome to, but will continue to dismiss the possibility that they are harming the Cadets for the 2011 season. It is disheartening to see the continued sad statuses of current Cadets, to see them try and rally together AGAINST their own alumni, and try and make each other feel better through continued public support despite the negative alumni vibe. I have rarely seen Cadets post on public forums or sites in response to what others have to say, but the intensity and childish nature of some of the comments from the alumni have brought current members to speak out against them. I am astounded, simply dumbfounded. If for no other reason to stop posting publicly, do it for the age-out class of 2011. We don't know what is to come for the future of drum corps, or the Cadets, but what we are able to grasp is that the 2011 Cadets will field a corps set on pushing the envelope of innovation once again, making all alumni for the past 77 years proud. If you can find it in your heart to put the best interest of the members over that of your own (simply in terms of posting in public places!!!!!!!!!! MAKE YOUR CLAIM AND SEND YOUR COMPLAINTS TO THE PEOPLE THAT CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!), the members would be incredible appreciative. I chose not to sign this as the expert or as brassEXPERT, but instead as a friend of MANY current members that have all voiced their sheer sadness that the season is turning out completely different then they had ever hoped. They find it frustrating that they have been trained and taught not to post on this forum, but feel like they don't have a voice in this matter. Please, for the sake of the members, especially the age-outs, stop this pointless war. No matter how strongly you feel, the only thing being accomplished by this argument taking place is hurting the current members, and certainly NOT making a difference on what the Cadets will be wearing this year. -a friend of many current, discouraged Cadets 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Can't speak for Charlie, but I feel that a lot of the negativity has been knee-jerk. The fact is, we do no know the extent these "changes" will entail. I'm not an alum, so I can't and won't pretend to know how this decision leaves them feeling. I'm sure there are things that could've been handled differently to maybe soften the blow. And with past decisions/choices/directions that have been made, I can see why there are those out there who are fearing the worst. But honestly. Can we please wait to see what the uniforms will look like before crucifying them? Can we wait to see them before we start slamming Hop for not giving a #### about the alumni or tradition? Can we wait to see them before proclaiming the death of the Cadets? I understand it's the off-season and all, but still.... as I said I am intrigued. but I also have seen first hand in non iconic corps what that kind of change can do. And, honestly, some of the biggest bashers against Hop and his views on tradition are alumni. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I know many current members in the corps. You warn a student before hand of what to expect, and then you join or condone the arguements that partake? That doesn't make sense to me. And to your students, I would tell them that being a Cadet is something much more than a uniform. Its about the experience, your fellow members, and your heart. When you are a Cadet, it becomes a part of your soul. No matter what you end up wearing on the field. regardless of what I may say or feel on here, any kid I teach knows that they are feel to free whatever they want, and I won't try to influence them. When I warned that student about things they may see or hear, I gave no specific examples, nor did I voice any opinions I may have. In fact, when said student asked about going for a corps, i told them if they were going to audition for DCI, with their talent, the Cadets should be their first choice ( see, I won't lie to a kid, tell them to go some place they have no chance in making, only to see them get crushed.) I told that student that the Cadets can be polarizing, tho often times people mean the director, who does seem to have a good and caring heart towards his kids, and not the corps themselves. I told them to be open minded, go check it out, and I'd support them no matter what they did. They chose to go for it and make it, and I couldn't be prouder of them. But I also heard their disappointment when they told me ( a few weeks ago) they wouldn't be wearing the uniform that's considered the classic. Their own words" it's just not the cadets without those uniforms!" from the mouths of babes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Ugh - so this is my first time on here in about 7 months, but it seemed like a good time to come out of my off-season break. What makes it so easy, is that Jeff basically summed up what I wanted to say (not all that surprising...with a thousand posts or so per day he's bound to get something right... ) I'm not outraged by this...i'm not even a little bit angry....i guess I'm just kind of...sad? disappointed might be an even better word. It's not even the fact that the corps is wearing something different for the first time in 9000 years, but it's the REASON they are doing it. Keep in mind, i have only public reports to go off of, but the basic consensus is "We are doing this because it fits the show, and because we need to in order to move forward". In other words, yet another necessary 'innovation' Where the problem is, I suppose, is that is it really moving forward? Really? Changing your uniform to fit the show concept...maybe by toying with the colors but keeping the pattern the same? Like Regiment (changing colors every 3 years) or BD (changing sequins, adding skirts, changing colors on skirts) or SCV or every other corps? Is it an attempt to keep up with Crown and all their crazy body movement by getting more comfortable 'dancing' uniforms? Sorry, i'm just not seeing it. When you change the one thing that made you different, and start doing what everyone else has been doing for years, a little bit of something dies, and the saddest part is that i'm not even sure it's for a good reason. Will the Cadets still be the Cadets? of course...and I dont think a single person here seriously doubts that...but as far as being on the leading edge of drum corps?...it's getting harder and harder to still preach that line. The 'Retro' shows the past two years were great, and if that's the corps' MO - fine, and it seemed to work well...but you want to be the 'innovators' again? Prove it. Do something really crazy. Go out there with a full choir and single color spandex unitards with shifting light patterns. Put a Balinease Gamelan in the Pit...or play Threnody for the victims of hiroshima, with a John Cage piece for your encore... Am I slightly horrified to be suggesting things like this?...absolutely. A part of me, a BIG part of me would much rather see my old corps do a nice safe show about good and evil with some cadet-ish looking uniforms that will be bad*** and make me cheer...but dont do it in the name of change, innovation, and pushing boundaries. Don't play Ticheli for the 3rd time in 5 years and call it new (i dig the music btw). Dont be the LAST corps to finally catch on to the 'costuming' trend in DCI and WGI, and say "zig zig ...ZAG' in the same breath... Lastly, and it's sad that I have to do this, but please dont lump all of those who may be 'against' this change into the same boat. I've read the things on the FB page and here, and some of that sickens me as well. I wont vary my level of support, disown the corps, or in any way demean the current marchers there now. There are alumni with valid, and respectful concerns, and hopefully they wont all be branded as a torch-carrying mob. I know my comments may not help the situation at all from your end, but I feel like it needs to be said, because at least its a different viewpoint. Do I pretend to have all the answers...or even some?...no, not really? Do I, as someone who marched for just a few years know more about this situation that people that have been around for decades?...probably not. Still, I think I may at least have some interesting questions, and perhaps thinking about them could help bring about some new ways of thinking, both competitively, and with the traditions of the corps and what they really mean. welcome back. great post 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I give up. In 3 months of all of this chatter will be worthless because then people will have seen the cadets show and the uniforms. Till then I encourage people to be as positive and open-minded as they're emotions and minds will allow. or you just dont like the fact people will disagree with you and your "keeping it real" approach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) Change is a word that is thrown about too much today, ever since our current leadership began using it as a campaign slogan. It's old. Sometimes change is good, sometimes it's bad. Smart change is fine, but change only for the sake of change can also ruin something that may need more time to enjoy. Okay, back to the thread, just thought I'd put that out there again, since you've used the term so much on DCP. jjeffeory, really keeping it real on DCP Edited March 8, 2011 by Jeff Ream 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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