JR Corps marching G Bugles?

[fsubone]

I'm probably walking into a firefight here, but yeah, I do prefer the sound of Bb horns. Probably since I marched them and played on them, but I like the sound better. While I do have tons of respect for guys who can play the horns in G, and I like a lot of the stuff from back in the day, I just like Bb for corps. I know that there are many senior corps out there, including some good friends at Renegades, who swear by G horns, and that's fine. Different strokes for different folks, doesn't mean one is better or worse than the other. All comes down to personal preference, and I think a lot of that is built of the era you marched in. I got into DCI in 2003, so I caught just the last couple of corps on G, but it was 90% Bb by then, so that's the sound I came up around, and that's the way I enjoy more.

[DrillmanSop06]

I would love to see today's staff and talent march G bugles. Today's corps are being taught better. Hands down. They play with a higher level of musicality and technical ability and do so at a higher level of excellence with harder books, on average.

I would love to have that coupled with the sound of the B bugle just to see what would happen. Most G lines are nasty by comparison to today's corps but not by virtue of horn; it is by virtue of how outdoor brass pedagogy has evolved for the better.

[IntheMood]

BITD no one ever told me this is a G bugle. I had no Idea nor did I care. When I came back in 2004 I had no idea the switch was being made. I could not tell. Just like most people off the streets. To b honest all I want today is the Corps play whole songs unplugged.

Dean

[JimF-LowBari]

BITD no one ever told me this is a G bugle. I had no Idea nor did I care. When I came back in 2004 I had no idea the switch was being made. I could not tell. Just like most people off the streets. To b honest all I want today is the Corps play whole songs unplugged.

Dean

I go to DCA and have an untrained ear (not much ear training in my CompSci major). Unless someone tells me what a corps is playing I can't tell the difference. Having come from the "knock off the top row" era, I find the style of playing change has made a bigger difference than the key change.

PS - Westshoremen Alumni uses a mixed line of G/Bb because members bring their own horns. There are a few vids on "that site" somewhere....

[luvs me sum mello!]

1. G bugles sound awesome when they are played correctly, just like anything else

2. false, false, and false.

corps today aren't as loud, period.

any better balancing isn't due to horn key...it's just due to better balancing. the two aren't synonymous.

if you don't like the overtones of G bugles, then I suppose you will think tone quality is better, but once again, tone quality is a product of playing, not what you are playing on.

No they don't. They have pitch issues and good luck tuning a line. I've heard the USMC Band play them live and, while I am a huge fan of the USMC concert ensembles, the drum corps is not that impressive. They stick to heritage and don't have to compete, so why switch?

You obviously equate crass with loud. Yes, yesterday's corps were far more abrasive, but today's corps are louder. Better tuning and better balance makes for a louder sound. Physics win.

It isn't? G bugles are more difficult to tune within sections and across the line and in order for the low brass to hold down the very bright, very shrill sopranos, they have to blow their guts out and get a nasty sound. Orchestration 101.

We have decades of just horrible playing on G bugles next to near 2 decades of superior playing on Bb.

So I ask again: If things are better, why go back? And no, just because the tint of your rose colored glasses is getting astoundingly dark doesn't count.

[Stu]

Yes, yesterday's corps were far more abrasive, but today's corps are louder. Better tuning and better balance makes for a louder sound. Physics win.

Physics Win, you are correct. However Timbre, Tone, Pitch, and Balance (quality of sound) which is measured in Frequency "does not" equate to Power, Intensity, and Amplitude (volume of sound) which is measured in Decibels. So, the Physics issue in this Bb v. G debate is "not" whether one instrument can produce more accurate Frequency Quality than the other, but whether or not one instrument can produce more Amplitude Decibels than the other.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Stu

[knightsbari]

I have marched on both over my years and I will admit I prefer Bb. IMHO easiere to tune, easier to play, easier to center pitch on ( also lighter weight ... hey when playing contra it matters LOL ) and I prefer the sound of the Bb/F horns I think they just have a darker more resonant sound.

[audiodb]

No they don't. They have pitch issues and good luck tuning a line.

Actually, the Bb/F hornlines have additional issues with tuning due to the differing tendencies of the F mid-range vs. the other voices in Bb. That can result in some nasty clashes that a brass section of all G instruments will not encounter.

I've heard the USMC Band play them live and, while I am a huge fan of the USMC concert ensembles, the drum corps is not that impressive.

Yeah, the Marine D&BC just flat-out sucks, don't they? (/sarcasm)

You obviously equate crass with loud. Yes, yesterday's corps were far more abrasive, but today's corps are louder. Better tuning and better balance makes for a louder sound. Physics win.

I don't think any honest witness to hornlines through the decades would contend that Bb/F lines are louder than G bugles. Perhaps you are comparing today's 80-person lines to the 64-person lines of a decade past.

It isn't? G bugles are more difficult to tune within sections and across the line and in order for the low brass to hold down the very bright, very shrill sopranos, they have to blow their guts out and get a nasty sound. Orchestration 101.

I don't even know how to respond to this mythology.

We have decades of just horrible playing on G bugles next to near 2 decades of superior playing on Bb.

So I ask again: If things are better, why go back? And no, just because the tint of your rose colored glasses is getting astoundingly dark doesn't count.

You can't even read your calendar through whatever colored glass you are viewing. Bb/F was first used in DCI in 2000....that is not "near 2 decades" yet.

As for the "superior playing"....sorry, but there has been plenty of both superior and inferior playing before and after the rule change. Anyone who believes otherwise must have rose-colored earplugs.

[Mello Dude]

Actually, the Bb/F hornlines have additional issues with tuning due to the differing tendencies of the F mid-range vs. the other voices in Bb. That can result in some nasty clashes that a brass section of all G instruments will not encounter.

Yeah, the Marine D&BC just flat-out sucks, don't they? (/sarcasm)

I don't think any honest witness to hornlines through the decades would contend that Bb/F lines are louder than G bugles. Perhaps you are comparing today's 80-person lines to the 64-person lines of a decade past.

I don't even know how to respond to this mythology.

You can't even read your calendar through whatever colored glass you are viewing. Bb/F was first used in DCI in 2000....that is not "near 2 decades" yet.

As for the "superior playing"....sorry, but there has been plenty of both superior and inferior playing before and after the rule change. Anyone who believes otherwise must have rose-colored earplugs.

:worthy: :worthy:

[JimF-LowBari]

You can't even read your calendar through whatever colored glass you are viewing. Bb/F was first used in DCI in 2000....that is not "near 2 decades" yet.

And "decades of horrible playing on G bugles" puts us back in the piston/rotor days. Like comparing 3 valves of today in either key against those beasts is a valid comparision.

And before anyone flames, I've played G P/R and G 3 valves.......