Carolina Crown 2010 "A Second Chance"

[bringTheLoud]

Designers need to be careful about themes that revolve around individual guard members, in my opinion. Those designs often lose us when we fans lose sight of the "star." I think that's part of what happened here. The design leaned too heavily on isolated interactions between one or three in the guard to communicate the particulars of this theme - and that theme wasn't nearly so easily to communicate as, for instance, the death of Spartacus in Phantom 08 or the confusion of Cadets dreamgirl in 05. Even Crown's 09 pixie didn't tax our attention in service of the theme.

That said, Crown 10 had lots of great things going on. The failure of the storyline to reveal itself postively to me wasn't much of a negative.

HH

I agree - shows that involve a particular character often lose me. I find myself not watching the guard because i'm watching the horns and drums, and sometimes i just plain don't want to pay attention to them **cough** little jeffery **cough**.

If a design team really wants someone like me to notice the story line in the guard, they gotta use the drill/design to make me pay attention to it.

That's just my take on it though

[pistolpete]

Great inside info from corpsband and CrownStarr on how the show evolved. I saw Crown twice last year and I much preferred the August ending to the early season version.

[crownisking]

I think the reason this show didn't work for so many people is because they condensed an entire romantic-comedy into about 10 minutes. There wasn't much development for any parts of the love story, hence confusion from the audience. (Hence, I don't like how this show was designed...visually too)

Honestly, you're the first person I've ever heard say they didn't like that show. It did after all win the fan favorite award. I can say that there were probably a few people that didn't get the show's concept, but most can agree that the music was pretty awesome.

[skewerz]

Honestly, you're the first person I've ever heard say they didn't like that show. It did after all win the fan favorite award. I can say that there were probably a few people that didn't get the show's concept, but most can agree that the music was pretty awesome.

probably more that just didn't try to get the show's concept, and simply appreciated it for the music.

If it takes explanation to "get" a show concept, the show concept is too esoteric...period.

[MikeN]

That said, Crown 10 had lots of great things going on. The failure of the storyline to reveal itself postively to me wasn't much of a negative.

HH

What he said. I found that by the end of the season, I could have cared less about the "story" involved.

Mike

[actucker]

I have to say, from the reaction over 2009's results, and the approach to the design of the show, its pretty easy to interpret 2010 as simply a "second chance" for the judges to give them a championship. I have no idea if that's what the design staff had in mind, but it comes across as pretty arrogant.

As for the show itself, I learned an important lesson in design a few years back, and that was that if a conversation like this is going on, you didn't do your job as a designer. If you're going to do a storyboard kind of show, it has to be clear. If you're going to do a conceptual show, it has to stay true to the concept. If there is a question about something's purpose on the field, then it might as well not be on the field. That's not to say that you can't do a show that is supposed to be interpreted. Phantom's show was very interpretive, but they also didn't set it up with a title that suggests a certain concept. There were definite moments in Crown's show this year that were great. The rewind was really clever, and there were a couple of little "second chance" moments throughout the show. And if that were all they were doing from a visual concept standpoint, it would have been great. But they kept briefly hinting that there was supposed to be a story line involved as well, and never developed it well enough for people to get it, and so the show comes across as a show that failed to get its point across. Its a really hard line to walk from a designer's point of view, as there will always be people who don't get it. However, when an entire community of folks can't come up with an idea of the show's intent without help from members of the corps, then the show wasn't a success from a design standpoint.

This is, of course, said with all due respect to the hard work that the members and staff put into the summer. Musically, the show was brilliantly performed, and there were definitely moments I loved about it. I just felt like those design issues were what separated them from the rest of the pack at the top this year. I've certainly had similar issues with my own design, and you're not going to get it right every year, but this is just my humble opinion as an observer.

[perc2100]

Jebus. A written version of what that gentleman tried to tell what the Bluecoats '09 show was all about in the "Designer's Commentary" FN show from San Antonio. As I recall, he began with as statement something along the line of, "The concept is pretty simple..." from there... well, you just have to go back and listen. "My brain hurt's" ($1 to D.P. Gumby)

Go to a show and enjoy. That's what I try and do a couple times a year.

For what it's worth, I'm a Trooper mark. So, in '08 for instance it was a Train Show. In '09, Cowboys and Indians. I'm still working on last year's show. It is what it is.

Have fun and enjoy!

This is what's great about drum corps: you have the simplistic shows that you don't think about after the last member leaves the field, and then you have shows that are long-lasting in your mind. There is NOTHING wrong with shows that make you think about the concept, decipher for yourself what's going on, etc.

For me personally, I really enjoyed Crown's show last year. I didn't "get" what the show was supposed to be at first, and I watched it the first few times and just enjoyed the marching and playing. As the show developed over the season, I started making "guesses" as to what the show was about, and after talking to some staffers I got the full story. That depth of design makes it even more enjoyable to me, and the fact that people are talking about it 8 months after Finals (in a generally positive way, or at least debating the show's meaning) is pretty cool.

Troopers the last couple of seasons have been fine, sometimes actually good. There is nothing wrong with answering 'what is their show' with one-word ("trains" for example) and seeing the shows doesn't have much more depth past "trains." If you enjoy the music and marching, and that's all there is to a show, then great: nothing wrong with that.

Conversely, there's nothing wrong with reading a multi-paragraph description of a show concept: if the show is designed and executed effectively, there's nothing wrong with that (in contrast, the Bluecoats 2009 show was rife with design problems, so I share your frustrations with that one).

Also, there's a reason why Crown have been Top 6 the last several seasons with their deep shows, and Troopers have made finals only once in the same span...

[perc2100]

If it takes explanation to "get" a show concept, the show concept is too esoteric...period.

This is true, to an extent, but I think that there is plenty of ignorance, and possibly bias at play with this type of thing. With people spouting off stuff like (paraphrasing) "I don't like themed shows, I just want to hear loud brass playing and fast marching," there are obviously people who plain don't LIKE these types of shows.

Not to mention, there is NOTHING wrong talking about a show's deeper meaning, or some of the more subtle stuff in a show design after-the-fact. To be honest, a bigger "crime" than what you say above, IMO, is "if the show doesn't make me think about it after the last member leaves the field, the the show is too shallow...period." Great music and marching is fine: nothing wrong with that. But I (and many other people in an audience, including judges) often want to see more from a show design than just marching & music. There is absolutely nothing wrong sprinkling in plenty of subtlety, or references into a show that some might not "get."

There's NOTHING wrong with having to think about a show design

[corpsband]

I just felt like those design issues were what separated them from the rest of the pack at the top this year. I've certainly had similar issues with my own design, and you're not going to get it right every year, but this is just my humble opinion as an observer.

IMO the biggest issue the show faced was some of the staging. There were sections in the show that were ridiculously hard (impossible?) to clean musically due to staging. Judges gave them a pass on those sections early on but as the season wore on their tolerance evaporated. It took too long to make the changes required to clean those sections up. And the changes ending up being far less "effective" than the original. It's great that the staff believed in the performers so much that they waited a long time before getting out the hose. But I think it hurt the corps competitively. I saw lots of chatter on DCP about Crown's brass not being as talented as '09 . IMO it wasn't the performer at all but the book combined with the staging. And don't forget the challenges the battery faced this season.

I'd rank the design issues you mentioned a distant third in terms of explaining their final standing.

Again - I could be completely wrong in this theory -- it's just my guess.

I think it's awesome that Crown is willing push boundaries this way. "2nd Chance" was one the most technically difficult shows I've ever seen. They were doing things you shouldn't be able to do on a football field and making it look effortless. The fact that (IMO again) they "over-wrote" some of it just means they now know exactly where to 'dial it in' to this year

[soccerguy315]

There's NOTHING wrong with having to think about a show design

unless you think the judges should be judging what is in front of them, and not what has been explained by staff and what the judge has decided after seeing the show 5 times.