GREENBLUE Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) This has got to be one of the most ridiculous recaps I have ever seen! BD visual design over Cadets and Cavies, Theres the Debbie Torchia we all know and love(sarcasm) GE scores are pretty accurate, kudos to those judges Crowns .6 higher then Cavies in visual profficiency and BD with higher Visual Content scores? HUH? The Cadets 1 point lower and Crown 1.8 lower than Phantoms Guard, really? The placement I can handle...the scores not so much. Brass score I can handle, nothing out of the ordinary. Brass Design, maybe accurate placements but the gap is too big between the top 4. Percussion, content scores seem about right, performance scores wierd. But, Cavies must have had an off night, as well as SCV. down performance scores cant accurately comment on this one. Basically the story of the night was the visual judges not only in score placements, but the gap between the scores. This just shows how a judging panel (and their very subjective and biased opinions) could possibly affect the placements of a show and the members would have absolutely no control over their own fate. sad Edited July 23, 2011 by GREENBLUE 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboogey73 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 This has got to be one of the most ridiculous recaps I have ever seen! BD visual design over Cadets and Cavies, Theres the Debbie Torchia we all know and love(sarcasm) GE scores are pretty accurate, kudos to those judges Crowns .6 higher then Cavies in visual profficiency and BD with higher Visual Content scores? HUH? The Cadets 1 point lower and Crown 1.8 lower than Phantoms Guard, really? The placement I can handle...the scores not so much. Brass score I can handle, nothing out of the ordinary. Brass Design, maybe accurate placements but the gap is too big between the top 4. Percussion, content scores seem about right, performance scores wierd. But, Cavies must have had an off night, as well as SCV. down performance scores cant accurately comment on this one. Basically the story of the night was the visual judges not only in score placements, but the gap between the scores. This just shows how a judging panel (and their very subjective and biased opinions) could possibly affect the placements of a show and the members would have absolutely no control over their own fate. sad Ahh yes. You don't agree with the scores so they must be wrong? Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srb30a Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 What did I tell you??? these scores are a JOKE!!!! Especially where Debbie T is concerned. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxfreq1128 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) This just shows how a judging panel (and their very subjective and biased opinions) could possibly affect the placements of a show and the members would have absolutely no control over their own fate. sad Have no control? Sure they do. They can choose to: 1) March, knowing fully well from the start that judging is subjective and will sometimes screw them over (or give them scores better than they deserve). 2) Don't march. The judges won't put a number on that, at least. The numbers are fickle; the joy of performing is not. No need to get bent out of shape by specific subcaptions at this point, friend. It ain't finals, yet. Nothing's set in stone. I agree that the scores are weird, but many of us are finding the surprises kind of exciting... Edited July 23, 2011 by saxfreq1128 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcsnare93 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) interesting things on the recap just looking at the percussion numbers. I'd love to see what';s different on these sheets that SCV fell to 5th in drums and cadets jumped to 2nd after weeks of being lower. looks to be more what and how based than the normal system based on the numbers and how i've read the lines all year from on line lots of sub box ties all over the place too You and I both. Edited July 23, 2011 by dcsnare93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBLUE Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Ahh yes. You don't agree with the scores so they must be wrong? Got it. Nope. Im just questioning the judges and the system. I dont understand the discrepencies from night to night. One night a corps can have an 8.0 in content, the very next night compete against the same corps and then score a 7.2 or an 8.6. In one day, with no rehearsal/show changes how does a score fluctuate so much. Until someone can give me a concrete answer Im going to go off the assumption of judges personal biases, likes/dislikes. And, its because of this system I dont believe it to be fair to the corps or its members. I keep saying, performance scores I understand the ups and downs, content scores I do not. Its like in basketball, nobody likes it when the refs control the outcome of the game. I dont believe who's judging from night to night should control the outcome of a show. I dont care if youre a BD fan, a Phantom fan or a Cavies fan, as a drum corps community this should be an issue we all feel needs to be addressed by DCI. Imagine if youre a corps, any corps, and in QF you score a 9.8 in visual content from judge A, at semi's you score a 9.8 in the same category from judge B. Now here comes finals and Judge C( who continually scores your corps lower) decides to give you a 9.3 in content and you lose a championship or drop out of a medal spot because of the .5. How would that make you feel? Thats my point....oh and btw theres not many on DCP or in the drum corps community who thinks BD has a better visual package/design then the Cadets and Cavies this year, sorry. Edited July 23, 2011 by GREENBLUE 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBLUE Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I would love to see DCI put together a panel of judges during finals week or one of the regionals and hold a JUDGING DCI 101 seminar. They can explain to the fans the score sheets, what theyre looking for, exactly what each subcaption means, answer some questions.Maybe pull up examples from past years and show how they judged that particular show or how they would have judged it. Id pay to attend! Personally, Im tired of the guessing game from year to year, night to night. Sometimes I wish I could just enjoy some good drum corps and not worry about the politics. Nevermind, how much fun could that be? :) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Changes in program/design of each show aside, it's simply *wonderful* to see how much more exciting each corps' show has gotten as the members have gotten fitter and faster and are doing things with a lot more ease. Those closing pass-throughs remain treacherous for the Cadets, though. I love their ending, but I do wonder if they'll change it... Definitely rooting for the Cadets to win it, this year. I hope they change it too, but it's already July 23....kinda getting down to the wire. If they haven't changed it by now, I doubt it'll change. But then again, it was July 25 when we used our new ending in 2000. We shall see. Edited July 23, 2011 by 2000Cadet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Isn't this -- http://www.dci.org/scores/recap/view.cfm?event_id=48467560-5ea9-4afb-b381-e1ed6110bc22 -- a recap of the Rosemont TOC? Maybe it's definitions of "score sheet," which skywhopper said he thought hadn't been released, vs. "recap"? That may be fairly called the "score sheet". I think most people say "recap". But anyway, when I was talking about the "sheets" and when people here mention the "new sheets", those are the pieces of paper that tell the judges for each caption what criteria to use in judging that category. So Michael Cesario has been leading a team at DCI to modify those sheets to better reward shows that connect with the audience in a positive way. It's not clear how much the criteria are changing. On some podcasts (Field Pass and Marching Roundtable) Cesario has said he's trying to simplify the sheets and emphasize certain aspects more, and maybe some of it will involve clarifying what elements go in what captions. All of that said, we don't know what's on the current sheets, or the experimental sheets the TOC is using (which, if DCI decides they are successful, will probably be implemented for all shows next season). Here's a Music Effect caption sheet from 2008 that was posted on DCI.org in a article by Michael Boo: http://dci271.dci.org/news/pdf/2008/080809_music_effect_judge_sheet.pdf I expect/hope this sheet has changed since 2009 was the first year for electronics. That should give you some idea of what we mean by "sheets". But as far as I know, none of the sheets are available anywhere. Unless they're in the rulebook that supposedly you can buy by contacting DCI directly? Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Wow. Cavies and Devs take 1 and 2 despite going on 2 hours before Cadets and Crown. I wonder a little bit if going on early doesn't have something to do with it. The gaps between performances are extra-long at the TOC show, as well, so Crown is going on an hour or more later than BD, and Cadets are nearly two hours later than Cavies. Would going on side-by-side with these guys be better for Crown and Cadets? Going before BD and Cavies at Minnesota seems to have been better for Crown than going later at the TOC shows. And when Crown and Cavies have gone on side-by-side, Crown does much better, IIRC. Or maybe the TOC sheets actually hurt Crown? That would be surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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