crfrey71 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 2. GET THE DANG BRASS JUDGE OFF THE FREAKIN' FIELD. The biggest joke in DCI for the last several years is giving the award for best brass line at field level. Devils were clearly better up top, and Crown, though really good, had some serious breakdowns the field judge simply didn't catch. I can never understand why the brass judge can't judge from the track. When I am on the field taking pics, I can easily hear flaws as well as great playing. I was a trumpet player, so maybe my ears are more tuned in. But wait, shouldn't the brass judge's ears even be better than mine? Why do we have a guard judge on the field??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) "Some time, Hop, when the team is up against it, when things are wrong and the breaks are beating the boys, ask them to go in there with all they've got and win just one... for the Zipper." Touche'. Although I think the set at the end of the show before the first company front would be more of a zipper. Edited August 7, 2011 by 2000Cadet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastblue Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Actually, the demanding portions of Spirit's music are played while they are parked. To use the words "Bland and Safe" to describe Troopers show this year is to have no idea of what demand really is. I think Trooper's show is much more mature than Spirit's and more demanding. I wouldn't guite write off Troopers yet. "They may not "park-and-blow" like Spirit, but, the judges love their musicallity! " hmmmmmmmm my thoughts below.Though I like all aspects of shows, I am a brass musician, conductor, arranger, and composer. At shows, my ears go to the craft of what is being played, how the percussion writing fits, risk, and simultaneous demand (yes, watching and listening). It has seemed obvious to me from the first show where I saw both corps that each had some good things in their respective shows. Spirit's stood out clearly to me from day one. I really am not trying to slam or discount what Troopers are bringing to the field. I do not agree that Spirit's most demanding parts are played while standing. There are several moments where they do stand and play. The two moments I can think of that are of any real length are the one in the second portion (lots of passing of 16th notes, nice shaping) and the big arc moment in Harlem Nocturne. Both much more difficult than Troopers stand still moments. On the move they play lots of isolated hits that are darned impressive (many are quite spread), double tonguing, triple tonguing, long phrases on the move that pass form section to section. Troopers have a nice chorale stand still moment in the beginning, but the four times have have seen it live, there are tuning issues. Troopers play lots of whole notes and half notes on the move. Spirit has faster tempos for longer sustained periods of time. Spirit has much more variety in regards to orchestration choices that in turn challenge and provide each section with opportunity to play various roles on multiple ocassions, including carrying the melody. Not sure if holding and playing is a bad thing. When I watch all successful corps, it is part of what they do. Easy examples are demonstrated by the top 5 shows. I would contend that both Troopers and Spirit both stand less, if not much less, than several of those groups. Referring to Troopers as "bland" is a reaction to the long period of their show where the interest level is not maintained for as much as a minute at at time. Colors and textures, tempos, and pacing go by too slowly to maintain my interest. "Safe" is not a bad thing, certainly if battleing it out for that 12th or 11th spot. I just feel that Spirit has decided to be less safe than the corps around them and are living up to the challenge. I also find the variety of Spirit's show to have great appeal and creates challenge in and of itself because the members have had to learn techniques for various styles. The shaping, accents, and nuances are there. Perhaps because some of theshaping in quick and articulation/weight based, some cannot hear or appreciate the difficulty or the mastery. Listen to Harlem Nocturne again, not only is every measure shaped, but figures within each, as jazz or swing should be. This is why so many corps have abandoned true jazz or swing. I am thrilled they took the risk and are doing a fantastic job playing the style correctly. Hearing shaping in a chorale may be easier due to the nature of how notes pass over time. Again, not slamming Troopers, they have a very good and well trained corps. I just find this year's new finalist face to clearly be Spirit of Atlanta. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckdan Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 After reading your posts all season, I guess it's not surprising that you would dismiss westcoastblue's comments, as legit as they are, as being mere "homer-speak," even though westcoastblue is a Blue Devils alum and only lists BD shows among favorite all-time shows. Homer speak??? No, westcoastblue just happens to think Spirit is better than Troopers this year, as do the majority of the posters I've seen in recent weeks (not to mention the judges). Good luck to the Troopers, Spirit and ALL of the corps next week in Indy. I think that many areas of Spirit's show are better than Troopers! There, I said it! But there is more than just the ability to play loudly and have all of your demanding parts played while stationary. Troopers have a show which is tasteful and a bit more demanding (as in playing difficult parts while marching) and I believe that they are not dead yet! Troopers have an excellent, and perhaps top ten, hornline, a growing and proficient color guard, and a bit of a deficit when it comes to percussion. If the drum line can keep the scores close in the upcoming competitions you may very well see a movement of the corps into a very tight competition for the 12th spot. I am not dismissing westcoastblue's comments, I only believe that there has been more negative posts this year than ever for a corps which is strongly pushing for finals. You only have to go back to 2008 and Phantom to see how it is important to leave the competition on the field and not on commentary! I wish only good luck to Spirit, (one of my favorite all-time corps) and the rest of the battlers for 12-17. Yes I hope that Troopers make it into finals, but, I only want them to make it if the other corps are at their best and there is a glorious competition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 Were you at both shows to compare apparently you werent so if your going to call anything an anomaly youshould hold off your critisim until you have something to compare performances. Geez, someone needs to take a breather before posting next time, okay? Look, everyone knows that corps do better at their home show, it's not some big secret. Out here on the West Coast, when they did the Pacific Procession show, it was well known it was BD's home show, and they pretty much always won. Phantom at the Rockford show, always does better. Corps do better in front of their home crowd. So, yeah.... looks like the Lawrence show would be the anomaly. It wasn't a criticism, I enjoy Boston's show. But I think the scoring at Allentown was probably closer to reality. I'm glad you're a Boston homer, but you're a little too quick to dismiss other people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricia-A BD/BK Mom Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) Since you were at both the shows in Lawrence on Thurs. ( Boston 2.5 tenths in back of SCV), and last nite in Allentown where Boston was buried by over 2 points by SCV, did you think that SCV improved their performance, or did Boston have a flat night ? From the reports we heard, many thought Boston was right there, or perhaps even better than SCV last night. What happened Liahona, from your perspective ? Boston got a very low Guard score. Was SCV the 2nd best Guard of the night in your opinion ? SCV came in 2nd in Guard beating the Cadets Guard with a 18.70...... the same guard judge gave the Cavs Guard a 18.90 in Allentown for additional perspective. Is the SCV Guard about as good as the Cavaliers Guard and better than The Cadets (and Phantom's) Guard ? If so, thats news to me. These scores sure are interesting this year. Its fun. BK's guard placed higher than BAC, way to go Stacia & Craig, sorry I’m a Mom. General Effect SCV - 35.85 BAC - 35.45 BK - 35.50 SCV - v. BAC = .40 lead SCV BAC v. BA = .05 lead BK Visual SCV – 27.70 BAC – 26.40 BK - 26.00 SCV v. BAC = 1.30 to SCV BAC v. BK = .40 to BAC Music SCV – 27.05 BAC -26.40 BK -25.20 SCV vs. BAC = .65 to SCV BAC vs. BK = 1.20 to BAC - BK's achilles heel Total point difference between this race: SCV – 90.60 BAC - 88.25 BK - 86.70 SCV vs. BAC = 2.35 spread BAC vs. BK = 1.55 spread I don’t understand why BAC is more worried about SCV than BK; when BK is closer to catching BAC than BAC is to catching SCV? Just wondering... Edited August 7, 2011 by Tricia-A BD/BK Mom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) I think Bostons score drop was because of their new ending (noticed some visual dirt on the Allentown video, and a few stick outs), but tweak it and clean it this week, and they're good to go Thursday! Love the addition of more 1812 in the ending, some intense drill as well. Glad to see the flag work for the last hit remained the same (I'm not a guard guy, but that stuff really caught my eye) This went from being one of my least favorite shows this year when I saw it first to one of my favorites! Edited August 7, 2011 by DrumManTx 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Since you were at both the shows in Lawrence on Thurs. ( Boston 2.5 tenths in back of SCV), and last nite in Allentown where Boston was buried by over 2 points by SCV, did you think that SCV improved their performance, or did Boston have a flat night ? From the reports we heard, many thought Boston was right there, or perhaps even better than SCV last night. What happened Liahona, from your perspective ? Boston got a very low Guard score. Was SCV the 2nd best Guard of the night in your opinion ? SCV came in 2nd in Guard beating the Cadets Guard with a 18.70...... the same guard judge gave the Cavs Guard a 18.90 in Allentown for additional perspective. Is the SCV Guard about as good as the Cavaliers Guard and better than The Cadets (and Phantom's) Guard ? If so, thats news to me. These scores sure are interesting this year. Its fun. Just to clarify a bit before I give my opinions...I had two different perspectives at each show. In Lawrence, I was 50 yard line lower/mid level(not that great for drill read) and I was on upper level section Q at Allentown. Although I'm a horn player(not qualified to judge guard for that matter), but as a amateur I really didn't think much about SCV's guard except for one mid-field moment in the show. Other than that if I blinked I don't think I would have missed anything. It was not very memorable. Sorry but the Cadets guard was far better than SCV's guard IMO. As far as BAC's guard, I think this is one of the first times since 2000 that I actually noticed them (setting aside their 2009 uni's...lol)because I'm more music driven when I watch shows. Boston and Cadets as well has actually made me take notice of something I normally would not focus on which is a great thing! In terms of music for SCV...If your happy with a corps playing at mezzo-forte the whole show good for you. I was waiting the entire show for resolve and only got it at the very end. They just don't have the raw power I am used to hearing from SCV all these years. I was really a disappointment in that regard although I believe that they are executing what they have at a fairly high level. With a better brass line that show would be absolutely killer! In terms of performance, SCV had a good solid run at Allentown, but I thought they were more exciting to me at least in Lawrence. I would say the same for BAC as well. Intensity level for both corps was a little better at Lawrence in my opinion, but in terms of projection I think Boston beats SCV hands down at both shows in terms of both visual and music GE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I think Bostons score drop was because of their new ending (noticed some visual dirt on the Allentown video, and a few stick outs), but tweak it and clean it this week, and they're good to go Thursday! Love the addition of more 1812 in the ending, some intense drill as well. Glad to see the flag work for the last hit remained the same (I'm not a guard guy, but that stuff really caught my eye) This went from being one of my least favorite shows this year when I saw it first to one of my favorites! I think the new ending works extemely well for them...One of Boston's BEST endings I've see from them ever IMO. CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN it's a marvelous thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I can never understand why the brass judge can't judge from the track. When I am on the field taking pics, I can easily hear flaws as well as great playing. I was a trumpet player, so maybe my ears are more tuned in. But wait, shouldn't the brass judge's ears even be better than mine? Why do we have a guard judge on the field??? Amen......ditto for percussion.......the "tick days" (ie counting actual errors....) are over, and the judge is supposed to consider what is being played and how well it is to be played. Does the percussion guy really need to have his head 2 feet off of the center snare? Is the pit only contributing during a ballad? Can't he hear the bad roll from the track? Does the brass guy have to have his head up against a segment of horns or individual horn? It's pathetic. It is the only judged musical activity that I know of that does this. It's even worse now that there is no ensemble percussion, although it is supposed to be accounted for in ensemble music (good luck with that). If we were judging an orchestra, concert band, or stage band, would we have the judge crawling around on their hands and knees on stage?? Of course not. Some actually say "we are drum corps and we hold our musicians to a higher standard"......I have actually heard that in reply to this.......... Ironically, in indoor percussion, there's no judge running around on the floor.......... GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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