scvjesse Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I agree with most of what you said, Schimmy, so it is with utmost respect that I must call bull#### on one statement: With the increased velocity and visual demands it made sense to alter the visual style so that horns wouldn't crack while changing directions I marched in the late 90s. We marched 190-200-210... I even marched 240+ in my last year (although only for 5 seconds lol). 4 to 5 was not uncommon. And we even had to march with G bugles which meant that we had to contend with cracks much more than the corps of the current era. If you had made that statement comparing 70s or even early 80s SCV with current demands, I'd be on board with you. But not in this case. I even want to go one step further and say that, regardless of the style, as long as the styles are all the same, SCV will place higher in visual as long as they all buy into it. I said that earlier in this thread, so I don't disagree with you there. But I do think that SCV doesn't love visual as much as we used to... I remember in 1999 there was a mello player that would always scream a tribal yell during our L-move at the end of the opener, even at finals. We thrived on that ####. I felt that visual was even more important to us than our music at times. I don't think that is the same today (and the scores would seem to agree with me). I was making an assumption about the hard flank thing, and you called me on it. You may be right and it may have nothing to do with it. But I can tell you that SCV's love for visual has taken a huge dip since they got rid of the hard flanks. I don't know if that's the reason or not, but it seems so. Edited July 12, 2012 by scvjesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scvjesse Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) whoops Edited July 12, 2012 by scvjesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I was making an assumption about the hard flank thing, and you called me on it. You may be right and it may have nothing to do with it. But I can tell you that SCV's love for visual has taken a huge dip since they got rid of the hard flanks. I don't know if that's the reason or not, but it seems so. No. Especially with the fact that they have ex-Cavaliers teaching them, visual is just as much of a priority as it was in your day. The normal rehearsal days usually have more time with the kids marching than playing. Maybe they've just started looking for a balance between visual and music, instead of just emphasizing one over the other? You could make the argument that staff turnover is part of the problem, but they've been working towards that having the same visual staff since 2010. And yes, the hard flanks were cool, but the corps still carries many of the traditions of the past with it, it just ended a couple of them over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scvjesse Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) No. Especially with the fact that they have ex-Cavaliers teaching them, visual is just as much of a priority as it was in your day. The normal rehearsal days usually have more time with the kids marching than playing. Maybe they've just started looking for a balance between visual and music, instead of just emphasizing one over the other? You could make the argument that staff turnover is part of the problem, but they've been working towards that having the same visual staff since 2010. And yes, the hard flanks were cool, but the corps still carries many of the traditions of the past with it, it just ended a couple of them over the years. You get no argument from me, fsubone. I relate more to someone that has marched the corps recently than to someone who hasn't. I'm just looking for reasons why the visual has sucked over the last decade (like many are, including you, I'd imagine). With SCV's brass and percussion being so great this year, it would be a shame if their visual kept them out of the top 3 this year. Edited July 12, 2012 by scvjesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THeShadeOfNight Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 You get no argument from me, fsubone. I relate more to someone that has marched the corps recently than to someone who hasn't. I'm just looking for reasons why the visual has sucked over the last decade (like many are, including you, I'd imagine). With SCV's brass and percussion being so great this year, it would be a shame if their visual kept them out of the top 3 this year. Their visual scores will pick up. I have full faith the staff and members can clean 8 to 5 drill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bariphonium Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Those saying Vanguard is back with the exception of the guard I can't quite agree with that. The guard is doing what they do very well. I say the problem is the color of uniforms,that print disappears on field, and the color of all of the flags they are using. Change the uniforms and flags to brighter colors and I would think that alone would bring up the scores. But hey they are consistently climbing and narrowing the gaps anyway so I have faith in what they are doing. I think it was just a poor choice of color this year. I guess we will find out on Saturday how they stack up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schimmy Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I agree with most of what you said, Schimmy, so it is with utmost respect that I must call bull#### on one statement: I marched in the late 90s. We marched 190-200-210... I even marched 240+ in my last year (although only for 5 seconds lol). 4 to 5 was not uncommon. And we even had to march with G bugles which meant that we had to contend with cracks much more than the corps of the current era. If you had made that statement comparing 70s or even early 80s SCV with current demands, I'd be on board with you. But not in this case. I even want to go one step further and say that, regardless of the style, as long as the styles are all the same, SCV will place higher in visual as long as they all buy into it. I said that earlier in this thread, so I don't disagree with you there. But I do think that SCV doesn't love visual as much as we used to... I remember in 1999 there was a mello player that would always scream a tribal yell during our L-move at the end of the opener, even at finals. We thrived on that ####. I felt that visual was even more important to us than our music at times. I don't think that is the same today (and the scores would seem to agree with me). I was making an assumption about the hard flank thing, and you called me on it. You may be right and it may have nothing to do with it. But I can tell you that SCV's love for visual has taken a huge dip since they got rid of the hard flanks. I don't know if that's the reason or not, but it seems so. I agree with you over the last decade the level of cleanliness visually was holding them back. There probably would have been blood shed if we ever looked like that. I loved the hard flanks and took great pride in the fact that we could wear green pants with white stripes and white bucks and still win visual. I also loved wearing my white pants (besides the fact that they fit better)and didn't march any differently when wearing the non-traditional pants. My point is that no matter what style the staff decides it is up to the members to own up to it and make it the best in DCI. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 You get no argument from me, fsubone. I relate more to someone that has marched the corps recently than to someone who hasn't. I'm just looking for reasons why the visual has sucked over the last decade (like many are, including you, I'd imagine). With SCV's brass and percussion being so great this year, it would be a shame if their visual kept them out of the top 3 this year. I've never had problems with the visual programs actually. Most people point to the technique being the problem, but the visual technique was a godsend for some of us with joint problems, it's so much easier on the knees than the old straight-leg with hard flanks. (The Cadet Corps still used those up through 2008). I still think the 2009 and 2010 drill were some of the best pairing of music and drill I've ever seen It could be staff consistency. Even over the summer, most of the brass staff are band directors, so have most of the summer off to teach. Most of the vis staff aren't band directors though, so they have to balance real people jobs along with corps. So that causes issues when you only have two or three people for 150 members. But the staff has been the same now since 2010, so the visual program should be taking a step up in the next year or two, once all of the members have been taught by the same staff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Their visual scores will pick up. I have full faith the staff and members can clean 8 to 5 drill. And 6 to 5 and 4 to 5 drill. How big of a step size do you think the people on the ends of the pinwheel are doing? The staff will get the job done by Finals. We aren't even to the first regional yet 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralNovice Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 And 6 to 5 and 4 to 5 drill. How big of a step size do you think the people on the ends of the pinwheel are doing? The staff will get the job done by Finals. We aren't even to the first regional yet We ARE in two days!!! <------ EXCITED! Hopefully it doesn't rain. So far... it's looking so-so. July 13 shows a 50% chance of rain with the 14th showing a 30% chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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