glory Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I find it difficult to accept that some don't accept that Dave Gibbs and his staff have the authority to decide who marches in the Blue Devils. Gibbs and his staff have that authority, not each member of the corps. That's the issue. Not marijuana. Not anything else. Gibbs decides. At least that's how it was supposed to be until finals night 2000. That night, one member who may or may not have had co-conspirators in the corps over-ruled Gibbs and reinstated himself. He did it by stealth and in a manner that presented Gibbs and the corps with a fait accompli: Let him march the show or risk public embarrassment, performance interruption and scoring penalty. I don't how you think drum corps should run. I'm pretty certain its not like that. I'm pretty certain we don't let the members choose which rules to enforce and which to disregard, which consequences to accept and which to ignore. It's easy to say it wouldn't have cost BD anything to let him march one last show. It's easy to say; it's not so easy to live with. Gibbs had to decide not for one person on just one day but for one corps and its entire future. It might seem harsh in the case of the one individual. But the decision surely wasn't taken with just one individual in mind. Gibbs must have had the whole corps and every corps to follow in mind. Turning a blind eye in the case of a major infraction would have been an invitation to more infractions. One last thing. One more thing we don't know. It's tempting to view this young man in question as a martyr, a sainted sort whose youthful indiscretion was blown out of proportion. Maybe he was a saint but for this single situation. Or maybe not. Maybe he was trouble all tour. Maybe by finals week Gibbs was fed up with his behavior. It's possible. Surely the young man's actions subsequent are consistent with such a possibility. Anyway, I mention this by way of saying: Let's not pretend to know his character; we don't. Gibbs, on the other hand, is more of a known quantity. So if he took this drastic action in the context of a corps as mature and - shall we say - independent as the Blue Devils during finals week, then maybe, maybe he had a good reason. Just saying. HH 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I find it difficult to accept that some don't accept that Dave Gibbs and his staff have the authority to decide who marches in the Blue Devils. Gibbs and his staff have that authority, not each member of the corps. That's the issue. Not marijuana. Not anything else. Gibbs decides. At least that's how it was supposed to be until finals night 2000. That night, one member who may or may not have had co-conspirators in the corps over-ruled Gibbs and reinstated himself. He did it by stealth and in a manner that presented Gibbs and the corps with a fait accompli: Let him march the show or risk public embarrassment, performance interruption and scoring penalty. I don't how you think drum corps should run. I'm pretty certain its not like that. I'm pretty certain we don't let the members choose which rules to enforce and which to disregard, which consequences to accept and which to ignore. It's easy to say it wouldn't have cost BD anything to let him march one last show. It's easy to say; it's not so easy to live with. Gibbs had to decide not for one person on just one day but for one corps and its entire future. It might seem harsh in the case of the one individual. But the decision surely wasn't taken with just one individual in mind. Gibbs must have had the whole corps and every corps to follow in mind. Turning a blind eye in the case of a major infraction would have been an invitation to more infractions. One last thing. One more thing we don't know. It's tempting to view this young man in question as a martyr, a sainted sort whose youthful indiscretion was blown out of proportion. Maybe he was a saint but for this single situation. Or maybe not. Maybe he was trouble all tour. Maybe by finals week Gibbs was fed up with his behavior. It's possible. Surely the young man's actions subsequent are consistent with such a possibility. Anyway, I mention this by way of saying: Let's not pretend to know his character; we don't. Gibbs, on the other hand, is more of a known quantity. So if he took this drastic action in the context of a corps as mature and - shall we say - independent as the Blue Devils during finals week, then maybe, maybe he had a good reason. Just saying. HH All good points. One caveat...none of us know what was going on along the sidelines as the corps began to play. The staff / DG may have been in feverish discussion with the judges and because this whole business (apparently) was not public knowledge it may have been suggested to continue the show vs "stop and restart" which at best would have been awkward for the viewing public. Afterall, it is a paid-for "show" in the end. But there are those on here that get sideways when things don't happen as they should and can't imagine such a thing going down without retribution. For me, knowing that he was not on the field during retreat says all I need to know about DG's actions and his taking responsibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I don't how you think drum corps should run. I'm pretty certain its not like that. I'm pretty certain we don't let the members choose which rules to enforce and which to disregard, which consequences to accept and which to ignore. but apparently not on this night. So if he took this drastic action in the context of a corps as mature and - shall we say - independent as the Blue Devils during finals week, then maybe, maybe he had a good reason. Just saying.HH the drastic action was... what? Obviously it wasn't not letting the kid march the show, since he marched it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I can't really condemn the guy for what he did. He acted a fool, but I still think it's a pretty cool drum corps story, really. But that's just me. I think it's a pretty dumb frat boy story. I'd like to think that "cool" stories in this activity don't require breaking the law and blatantly disrespecting authority due to an overzealous sense of entitlement and lack of accountability. But that's just me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 but apparently not on this night. the drastic action was... what? Obviously it wasn't not letting the kid march the show, since he marched it. I applaud your command of the facts! HH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think it's a pretty dumb frat boy story. I'd like to think that "cool" stories in this activity don't require breaking the law and blatantly disrespecting authority due to an overzealous sense of entitlement and lack of accountability. But that's just me. A perusal through the historical forum will show that the best stories often arise from situations where rules were broken and authority disregarded. I said it was a good story. Not a good lesson in morality. It's caught everyone's attention, it'll be remembered for decades . . . that makes it a good story. As my post makes clear, in general I condemn this sort of thing, and I sympathize wholly with the actions of the corps. I can't bring myself to condemn the guy in this specific instance. I wasn't there, don't his motives (glad that you do, though), don't know precisely what happened and in what order, and for that matter neither do members of BD 2000 that I'm acquainted with. It's tempting to give into a pompous, overzealous black-and-white morality in this specific case, but I can't quite do it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 A perusal through the historical forum will show that the best stories often arise from situations where rules were broken and authority disregarded. I said it was a good story. Not a good lesson in morality. It's caught everyone's attention, it'll be remembered for decades . . . that makes it a good story. As my post makes clear, in general I condemn this sort of thing, and I sympathize wholly with the actions of the corps. I can't bring myself to condemn the guy in this specific instance. I wasn't there, don't his motives (glad that you do, though), don't know precisely what happened and in what order, and for that matter neither do members of BD 2000 that I'm acquainted with. It's tempting to give into a pompous, overzealous black-and-white morality in this specific case, but I can't quite do it. I'll be willing to re-evaluate my "pompous" morality if you can give me a logical scenario as to how the kid decided that he knew better than everyone else, that he was above his punishment, that he was right in taking the field at finals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'll be willing to re-evaluate my "pompous" morality if you can give me a logical scenario as to how the kid decided that he knew better than everyone else, that he was above his punishment, that he was right in taking the field at finals. DONT MOST KIDS FEEL THEY KNOW IT ALL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 DONT MOST KIDS FEEL THEY KNOW IT ALL? Yup. Doesn't make it so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yup. Doesn't make it so. most often they dont have a clue, but know the answers to all world affairs..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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