Quad Aces Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) this was answered for you earlier, but... why plan in July if that staff won't be together next year? in July you're focused on this year. You don't really have time to go and seriously plot out next year Then what is the solution, Jeff, if rights are taking up to a year to secure? No, the staff may not be together the following year, but given these circumstances, it should be someone within the organization's (starting with the corps director) responsibility to plan this far in advance if that is what circumstances are dictating. Either that or figure out some way to speed up the process of securing the rights. I understand that this process could be a lengthy process, but almost a full year in some cases? I'd be willing to bet that even given the complicated nature of this process there would be room to speed this up. There are plenty of business deals that are more complicated than this that get negotiated in way less time than this. If something else isn't done, then each corps will be back in this same position every season, sitting on pins and needles waiting up until (in some cases it sounds like to the END of the season) to find out if your complete set of rights got approved or not, or got yanked last minute too. If securing rights is the reason that show announcements got so delayed this year, then it seems like this year is the worst that it has ever been for securing rights, which means that it probably will only get worse moving forward. Edited May 25, 2012 by Quad Aces 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Then what is the solution, Jeff, if rights are taking up to a year to secure? No, the staff may not be together the following year, but given these circumstances, it should be someone within the organization's (starting with the corps director) responsibility to plan this far in advance if that is what circumstances are dictating. Either that or figure out some way to speed up the process of securing the rights. I understand that this process could be a lengthy process, but almost a full year in some cases? I'd be willing to bet that even given the complicated nature of this process there would be room to speed this up. There are plenty of business deals that are more complicated than this that get negotiated in way less time than this. If something else isn't done, then each corps will be back in this same position every season, sitting on pins and needles waiting up until (in some cases it sounds like to the END of the season) to find out if your complete set of rights got approved or not, or got yanked last minute too. If securing rights is the reason that show announcements got so delayed this year, then it seems like this year is the worst that it has ever been for securing rights, which means that it probably will only get worse moving forward. 1. Suggesting that a design team lock in the music selection one year in advance is absurd. In addition to the "staff change" issue already raised, design is an iterative process. Things that work on paper might not work as well as you'd like in camp. Things that work in camp may not work as well as you'd like when they're on the field. Things you think are working on the field may not work with judging panels. 2. I don't see any corps sitting on pins and needles. Seems like everyone is moving in and getting on with the season. The only people "on pins and needles" appear to be on DCP. 3. If you're using music that hasn't been played before, there's no way to predict how the rights approval process will go. I guess corps could use music they KNOW will have no rights issues, but that would mean recycling stuff that's already been played or using music where the copyright has expired. Even then in the recycled case -- there's no guarantee that a lawyer or artist hasn't changed their mind since the last approval. 4. Since Madison was negotiating for ESOM sync rights during the entire season last year, this year would *not* be the worst it's ever been. Even in that case, it had no impact on Madison's ability to perform their show during the season. All that said -- for most corps and most music, securing the rights is NOT a big problem Yes there are glitches sometimes but IMO there's no need for any changes. Edited May 25, 2012 by corpsband 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Aces Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) . Edited May 25, 2012 by Quad Aces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Aces Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) 1. Suggesting that a design team lock in the music selection one year in advance is absurd. In addition to the "staff change" issue already raised, design is an iterative process. Things that work on paper might not work as well as you'd like in camp. Things that work in camp may not work as well as you'd like when they're on the field. Things you think are working on the field may not work with judging panels. 2. I don't see any corps sitting on pins and needles. Seems like everyone is moving in and getting on with the season. The only people "on pins and needles" appear to be on DCP. 3. If you're using music that hasn't been played before, there's no way to predict how the rights approval process will go. I guess corps could use music they KNOW will have no rights issues, but that would mean recycling stuff that's already been played or using music where the copyright has expired. Even then in the recycled case -- there's no guarantee that a lawyer or artist hasn't changed their mind since the last approval. 4. Since Madison was negotiating for ESOM sync rights during the entire season last year, this year would *not* be the worst it's ever been. Even in that case, it had no impact on Madison's ability to perform their show during the season. All that said -- for most corps and most music, securing the rights is NOT a big problem Yes there are glitches sometimes but IMO there's no need for any changes. There was a stretch in the late 90s where Madison planned out their shows for three years in a row all at once - I guess they didn't think it was so "absurd". Waiting until the entire season is just about over to find out after the fact if you have all of the rights in order for a show that you have been already performing the whole season isn't a big problem (and let's recall that was emphasized with a "NOT" in the response above)? Or having a performance blacked out on the DVDs isn't a big problem?? Certainly doesn't make the activity look better. Clearly if these things are happening, it is a bigger problem than just people griping on DCP. I'd hate to see what a big problem is then... Edited May 25, 2012 by Quad Aces 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Then what is the solution, Jeff, if rights are taking up to a year to secure? No, the staff may not be together the following year, but given these circumstances, it should be someone within the organization's (starting with the corps director) responsibility to plan this far in advance if that is what circumstances are dictating. Either that or figure out some way to speed up the process of securing the rights. I understand that this process could be a lengthy process, but almost a full year in some cases? I'd be willing to bet that even given the complicated nature of this process there would be room to speed this up. There are plenty of business deals that are more complicated than this that get negotiated in way less time than this. If something else isn't done, then each corps will be back in this same position every season, sitting on pins and needles waiting up until (in some cases it sounds like to the END of the season) to find out if your complete set of rights got approved or not, or got yanked last minute too. If securing rights is the reason that show announcements got so delayed this year, then it seems like this year is the worst that it has ever been for securing rights, which means that it probably will only get worse moving forward. the solutions are not that easy, but what you suggest isn't really feasible given the nature of our game. We have no control over the rights process, nor do we have the money to make it easier, and trust me, it would require cash. See drum corps needs are far outweighed by the corporate needs of the publishing and licensing companies. they could give adamn how fast we want it. It's all about them, and in some cases, maybe the artists. Not only that, but many of the works out there have clauses that allow the composer yes or no rights after seeing it. go look at WGI's site and what they say about rights from certain places and the demands....I mean some may say "ok this arrangement is fine, but you can not change one note". Seriously. if i am joining a corps as a designer, and a product I can't believe in is already in place, I'm not a happy designer. The only option then is to play stuff in the public domain, or as Hop once referred to it, the music of dead white guys. Given the complaints about programming, do we really want all classical music composed over 100 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 If securing rights is the reason that show announcements got so delayed this year, then it seems like this year is the worst that it has ever been for securing rights, which means that it probably will only get worse moving forward. I'm wondering honestly who they hell they are trying to get rights from. We have corps playing Micheal Jackson, and Lady Gaga and you would think those rights would be the hardest to get and yet it appears that they got them easily?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 you are so right ..and in many cases it comes back to bite you in the ###.....I Dont think theres some grand secret conspiricy, maybe they just plain ole don't feelin like sharin at this moment and want to open themselves to a critique. case in point...the BD show announcement thread. I know i said I'd wait and see, as did others....but man, did people jump on it. Same for Cadets...look how many people are trashing 12/25 without seeing it live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 case in point...the BD show announcement thread. I know i said I'd wait and see, as did others....but man, did people jump on it. Same for Cadets...look how many people are trashing 12/25 without seeing it live. exactly........................ we have become such an entitled society 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Actually I'm not suggesting that they post on DCP at all. Because even the corps admin will eventually step-in-it here. Unless you're a regular poster/reader, you're pretty much bound to step-in-it. There are plenty of channels where they have better control over the release (fb, corps site, twitter). Sure DCP will pick up on all those channels and re-post and discuss. But the corps fan base is much broader than DCP. Which kind of gets back around to my original point -- DCP should be a non-issue for the corps. It's entertaining and sometimes informative and often ridiculous. But there's no need to engage it directly. Let the DCP minions re-post all your press for you. great point...we'veseen Hop step in it, even if he was trying to be hunorous, and the whole Feidler "one hand tied behind our backs competitively" flap. and yes, DCP should be a non issue in some cases, but it is a good place to get the vibe from die hards, because die hards are the ones most willing to spend again and again. But there are people out there who take DCP very seriously, maybe too seriously. But...think back to the G7 fiasco....why did someone send me the proposal? Knowing I'd put it on DCP, and the attention it would get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 There was a stretch in the late 90s where Madison planned out their shows for three years in a row all at once - I guess they didn't think it was so "absurd". Waiting until the entire season is just about over to find out after the fact if you have all of the rights in order for a show that you have been already performing the whole season isn't a big problem (and let's recall that was emphasized with a "NOT" in the response above)? Or having a performance blacked out on the DVDs isn't a big problem?? Certainly doesn't make the activity look better. Clearly if these things are happening, it is a bigger problem than just people griping on DCP. I'd hate to see what a big problem is then... SCV announced a three year series too. And then -- it didn't happen. Staff moves around. What seemed like a good idea in year zero looks really bad in year 2. And did Madison have all three years laid out, music selected and cleared, blah blah blah ?? I doubt it. Having a three year "plan" is a far cry from getting rights 3 years in advance. I don't think anyone "waits until the entire season is over" by design. Things didn't turn out great for the DVD but none of this stuff affected the live performance -- ESOM was pretty cool live. And I'm sure Madison's staff had a good faith belief that they'd get the sync rights well before the season ended. Sure it didn't work out but it's hardly the end of the world to have a few minutes blacked on a DVD (happens in WGI sometimes too) . I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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