Jeff Ream Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Kind of. I agree that most corps are indeed roughly at the same level of talent. Where Bucs (and MBI) put themselves above the rest isn't just design, but in training. Bucs have developed a style in all captions and trained the members over a number of years to be able to perform it. It's not hard, but it does take time to cultivate. I can tell you that without the effort put in by the members and staff in 2003 and 2004, the streak that started in 2005 (when there was a paradigm shift in DCA) never would have happened. Design is important, absolutely, but don't discount training. As Helmuth von Moltke plainly stated, "No plan survives contact with the enemy." design is part of it. planning and how you spend the off season is another part of it. if you are still advertising for bodies in April, you're behind the leaders of the pack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I have no dog in this fight, and I wish the kids in C2 well. What will be interesting to me (and something that I have not seen discussed) is whether DCA will revisit their rules after this season, perhaps to disallow any sort of age cap. I am thinking that they would not, but I would not be surprised if SOMEONE didn't try to bring it into the rules. here's the problem...it will bite other corps in the ###. I know of at least Kilties that have rules in place about members under 18. So they would have to change their rules as well...and there may be others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Kind of. I agree that most corps are indeed roughly at the same level of talent. Where Bucs (and MBI) put themselves above the rest isn't just design, but in training. Bucs have developed a style in all captions and trained the members over a number of years to be able to perform it. It's not hard, but it does take time to cultivate. I can tell you that without the effort put in by the members and staff in 2003 and 2004, the streak that started in 2005 (when there was a paradigm shift in DCA) never would have happened. Design is important, absolutely, but don't discount training. As Helmuth von Moltke plainly stated, "No plan survives contact with the enemy." Agree... My thoughts are that it's the staff that drives the success, especially with a DCA corps that doesn't spend every day together. Staff has to plan how the limited time together will be used and get the members to use that time to max benefit. And of course that means having the members use their "alone" time to be prepared for corps together time. No wasted time, no wasted effort.... Never really thought that much about it until I saw how some non-competing (aka Alumni type) corps prepare on a limited full corps practice schedule. LOL - irony on use of the Moltke quote: started reading Guns of August over the 4th holiday... hadda do something since I wasn't parading around Bal-mer.... Edited July 5, 2012 by JimF-LowBari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 here's the problem...it will bite other corps in the ###. I know of at least Kilties that have rules in place about members under 18. So they would have to change their rules as well...and there may be others Just to be clear, The Kilties do not deny anyone under 18 years old membership, or an opportunity to audition for a spot. Rather, it's that we have certain parental procedures, guidelines, approvals and protocols for members in that age group, inasmuch (as example) a parent(s) or (parental approved and organizational approved) guardian(s) must be active in the corps either as a performing member, staff, administration, support, etc., and be at the corps functions. Our general lower cut-off age is anyone under 16. Top age.....well, when you die we may ask you to leave; maybe. Right now the age range within the field show group is between 16 and 64, with the average age of the corps being around 26-28.......all age groups are nicely represented and having a blast!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Just to be clear, The Kilties do not deny anyone under 18 years old membership, or an opportunity to audition for a spot. Rather, it's that we have certain parental procedures, guidelines, approvals and protocols for members in that age group, inasmuch (as example) a parent(s) or (parental approved and organizational approved) guardian(s) must be active in the corps either as a performing member, staff, administration, support, etc., and be at the corps functions. Our general lower cut-off age is anyone under 16. Top age.....well, when you die we may ask you to leave; maybe. Right now the age range within the field show group is between 16 and 64, with the average age of the corps being around 26-28.......all age groups are nicely represented and having a blast!! Kilties have always been above-board on their membership policies. I think they are really smart about how they approach the subject too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsbassdrum9703 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I can tell you that without the effort put in by the members and staff in 2003 and 2004, the streak that started in 2005 (when there was a paradigm shift in DCA) never would have happened. Design is important, absolutely, but don't discount training. " from experience marching with the bucs.. i believe what has led to their success started in 96.. the corps made their way back into finals and had a plan to improve. when 98 came also came a new staff in the drumline and a shift in how things were done..each year since then it changed slightly and grew into what you have today..years of hard work and effort by the members and staff before the streak is why reading is where they are today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) from experience marching with the bucs.. i believe what has led to their success started in 96.. the corps made their way back into finals and had a plan to improve. when 98 came also came a new staff in the drumline and a shift in how things were done..each year since then it changed slightly and grew into what you have today..years of hard work and effort by the members and staff before the streak is why reading is where they are today Good points. I've watched the Bucs go from the dark days of 1994-95, when they missed Finals both years and, for all intents and purposes, were on life support... to seeing them scrap their way back into Finals in 1996 and continue growing from there on. To their credit, they learned from whatever mistakes they made along the way, and have not repeated those mistakes. I agree with you... the dominating streak that began in 2005 had roots dating back to the 1996 season. Edited July 6, 2012 by Fran Haring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron H Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Good points. I've watched the Bucs go from the dark days of 1994-95, when they missed Finals both years and, for all intents and purposes, were on life support... to seeing them scrap their way back into Finals in 1996 and continue growing from there on. To their credit, they learned from whatever mistakes they made along the way, and have not repeated those mistakes. I agree with you... the dominating streak that began in 2005 had roots dating back to the 1996 season. That's a really interesting and instructive story. It points to the heart of the Buccaneer's organization, which I have tremendous respect for. A parallel event happened with Minnesota Brass in that era as well. MBI lost the Drum Corps Midwest championship to the Kilties in 1997 for the first time since 1983. That helped propel Minnesota Brass to their first 5th-place finish at DCA in 1998. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 That's a really interesting and instructive story. It points to the heart of the Buccaneer's organization, which I have tremendous respect for. A parallel event happened with Minnesota Brass in that era as well. MBI lost the Drum Corps Midwest championship to the Kilties in 1997 for the first time since 1983. That helped propel Minnesota Brass to their first 5th-place finish at DCA in 1998. I was at DCM in 97, and remember how classy MBI was about losing to Kilties. That was a fun night for everyone in DCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Just to be clear, The Kilties do not deny anyone under 18 years old membership, or an opportunity to audition for a spot. Rather, it's that we have certain parental procedures, guidelines, approvals and protocols for members in that age group, inasmuch (as example) a parent(s) or (parental approved and organizational approved) guardian(s) must be active in the corps either as a performing member, staff, administration, support, etc., and be at the corps functions. Our general lower cut-off age is anyone under 16. Top age.....well, when you die we may ask you to leave; maybe. Right now the age range within the field show group is between 16 and 64, with the average age of the corps being around 26-28.......all age groups are nicely represented and having a blast!! ok...so translation, if people wanted to change the rules because of C2, it would affect your corps as well. thank you for proving my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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