George Hopkins

[DarkHorner]

I do not think anyone has to worry about woodwinds being integrated into drum corps.

Reasons against woodwinds:

1) Woodwinds are non-directional instruments; however, brass are directional instruments. Due to this, woodwinds simply cannot create the focused, directional sound that drum corps is known for.

2) Woodwinds require extensive amounts of upkeep if used extensively outdoors. Pads wear and fall off, reeds would have to be replaced nearly every day with how much corps practice, and wooden instruments cannot adjust to different environments (As a guitar player, I know the care one must take when transporting a wooden instrument from a humid environment to a dry one. If a humidifier is not used, the wood will either shrink or grow. This caused the wood to form cracks or for bindings to become damaged.).

Also something which has not been touched on, clarinets bleach in the sun. Corps typically pride themselves on a very clean, uniform look. Having different clarinets at different levels of bleaching leads to a disjointed look (also, they turn a very nasty looking color anyway).

3) It is simply not cost effective to add woodwinds. If it is a money-driven decision, then purchasing good quality woodwinds each year will not offset any increased revenue from the one or two shows that the parents go to.

4) Many will boycott the activity. DCP is home of the diehardest of the diehards. If you simply say woodwinds, it erupts into 20+ pages in a day. Sure, DCP does not represent the activity as a whole, but in this topic, it is a fairly accurate representation.

5) Woodwinds are not impressive like brass are (bear with me on this). What is more impressive, a well-executed 16th note passage from brass instruments or the same with woodwinds. Woodwinds cannot do what makes them impressive in the marching activity (I consider woodwinds to be impressive due to tone quality and being able to play things brass players only dream about, but this type of playing is simply not applicable to a marching activity.). When is the last time you heard a woodwind feature during a marching band show that just made you applaud without even thinking about it?

6) New staff would be required to even audition woodwinds (As a brass player, I honestly could not judge the quality of a woodwind player with any accuracy.) let alone teach them. This causes even more financial difficulty (see 3).

7) A new judging system would need to be implemented. Adding woodwinds means adding a new woodwind caption (or combining brass and woodwinds, which would not be an effective judging technique). This means new sheets and new judges.

Reasons for woodwinds:

1) Sally, flute player, would get to finally audition for her favorite corps!

2) George Hopkins would find something else to complain about (maybe by the time woodwinds are implemented, he will want robots in drum corps?)

I'm not bashing woodwinds. They just don't belong in drum corps. They don't even belong in marching band in my opinion. The only place they belong is a concert hall (you don't see people marching violins).

[Barifonium]

"would they not come because these other woodwind players come? I don't think so."

PUT IT IN THE SURVEY!

Our brass line is our shield from the arrows of dilution.

It is the BRASS that for centuries has heralded royalty and was it's chosen aural, artistic representation of HONOR and everything that came with royalty (and yes, military might as well) at least in several European societies, Scotland and Ireland and Drum and Fifes excluded. It is the sound of brass and drums that was an additive to the primal instinct that overshadowed fear in battle. There is something about the sound of brass only that is truly unique in its own realm and class. The Military approach is part of our soul and heritage. The Cadets need only look to their own video that has become so popular to the interview with their brass caption-head at 4:44-5:18:

"A brass instrument is one of those unique instruments in that you can feel what the person is feeling. I always say to them, you know, that 'what you're feeling, the audience is feeling...'" (etc up til 5:18 to the start of Rocky Point).

I admit, the same emotions I felt in marching band in the BEGINNING when I didn't know better WERE the same as Drum Corps. As I came to realize that not everyone was as passionate about the activity as I was, or the BUZZ that they got left them, I craved a place where everyone cared. If a woodwind player REALLY CARES about what they do, they would be willing to make the switch. It's not that hard. Brass isn't just a conductor of electricity, it's a conductor of emotions as well- the best conductor of emotions; if it weren't, we would have seen a change by now.

The redistribution of Drum Corps talent and work ethic into the marching band world is equivalent to redistribution of wealth. It dilutes the product of drum corps and it takes away by such dilution, our honor... honor is now being taken over by art, and art, all-consuming as it is, certainly has the potential for honor but holds no regard for it. Drum Corps for me holds the last symbolic vestige of honor outside the military and ROTC. Yes, we are people performing- we are individuals, but that's the beauty of Drum Corps and any other "gladiatorial" environment:

We all join a corps, particularly the ones far away because we like their particular artistic/military representation.

(Integral is the brass with the military representation, and some artistic representation, but when you add woodwinds in this context for this purpose it becomes sole property of the art realm)

Something about their appearance and sound stirs our soul. We come from all over to UNITE and to temporarily assume the identity of something we love- to symbolically express the ideals that we have always wanted to express (mine was Purity when I joined the Phantom Regiment but later had to leave due to injury) in a medium that we believe most effectively expresses it, OR to let it teach us its ways and let their personality to become a part of us as the season progresses and changes us for the better (as happened with my last season at The Academy, a corps I didn't plan on marching, but ended up changing me for the better).

If you want to change your mission and use your talents for good, start a new organization and start from scratch. If it's marketable, it'll work, but don't drag US into it George and bestow the grief upon everyone else to leave this activity out of grief.

If the only way to survive is to sell our soul, the let it die WITH HONOR and rest in peace... let other organizations pick at the remains with a new, bigger fan base (giving you the benefit of the doubt here) but DON'T take the mantle or heritage of Drum Corps and claim it as your own. Make something new and if it works, kudos to you.

As for me, I shall come home with my shield, or ON it.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Barifonium

[BigBadMadMan]

if someone disagrees with you, do you always have to be such an ###?

I'm not an ### until people come along with snarky, cutesy responses that come across as arrogant and condescending. Then, yes...I'm an ###.

[garfield]

The woodwind debate simply comes down to personal preference and really not a lot beyond that.

Hence, my comment about your playlist...

[garfield]

Didn't Einstein say, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?"

Yes, and doesn't it apply to Hop, too?

So who's crazy?

[garfield]

2. "Most"? First of all, you're a biased observer. Maybe the kids who really wanted the two to be more similar didn't speak out? Word of mouth doesn't count as statistics unless polls are done scientifically. My point is that you don't really "know", you're just basing your beliefs on anecdotal evidence.

See Project Persona.

[Nizerifin]

If half of DCI becomes woodwinds, the demand for spots in the corps goes up. More kids would want to march, simply because they are now able to. With the extra participants, more corps can be formed or the max number of people in the corps can be raised. Regardless, show attendance increases. With an increase in ticket demand, ticket prices rise, earning more income for the corps.

[bawker]

Now, I'm hoping for electronics reform definitely within the next five years to allow for loops and samples. Then.... things get wild.

No.

No, they won't get "wild".

They won't even get a little nutty.

Right now, there is ample opportunity for a design team to tweak show length, voicing, numbers and twenty other things about "drum corps" show design.

Yet, no one does . . .especially George Hopkins.

We're still not past making pictures of snowflakes and crowns right now, thanks. Furthermore, drum corps is nothing more than a pastiche of other, original art forms and has problems with original thinking in its "genre". Real problems.

Anyway, set your expectations accordingly:

-right now, design teams are so risk averse that the fact that Crowns horn book in 2012 actually has "notes" in it is getting discussion here.

-right now, design teams are so risk averse that a corps that is playing Jingle Bells and making numbers on the field is your top scoring unit.

-right now, design teams are so risk averse we're recycling "Mars", "Pictures at an Exhibition", "New World Symphony" and "Phantom of the Opera".

-right now, design teams are so risk averse that the Blue Devils are cannibalizing their own repertoire from fifteen and twenty years ago for show music (but its DADA! ).

Anyhoo, point is, design teams can't even be bothered to use what they have in front of them already . . .much less any other new toys you would give them.

To address the thread itself, woodwinds are an afterthought, and, in my opinion, pointless. You have a patch now that can sound like a oboe or clarinet . . .why even bother with the real thing?

If we want to #### and moan about why we aren't getting stuff that's "wild", then ask those who design the shows . . .those that have been there for twenty plus years in some cases . . .when they're going to start to experiment with what they have rather than whine about what they don't.

Let's have someone bring that up in the instructors caucus.

Enjoy the crickets chirping in response.

Demand more from what's put in front of us now. I guarantee you the genre can be bent many different ways before we need to go running to make bears on unicycles legal.

[Kamarag]

If half of DCI becomes woodwinds, the demand for spots in the corps goes up. More kids would want to march, simply because they are now able to. With the extra participants, more corps can be formed or the max number of people in the corps can be raised. Regardless, show attendance increases. With an increase in ticket demand, ticket prices rise, earning more income for the corps.

What evidence do you have to support this claim? Frankly, I think adding woodwinds would have little to no affect on the bottom line.

George can want woodwinds until he's blue in the face. But until he gets some support for the idea, starting with the bulk of the instructor's caucus, it will never happen. Right now there is no support AT ALL.

[mingusmonk]

No.

No, they won't get "wild".

They won't even get a little nutty.

Right now, there is ample opportunity for a design team to tweak show length, voicing, numbers and twenty other things about "drum corps" show design.

Yet, no one does . . .especially George Hopkins.

We're still not past making pictures of snowflakes and crowns right now, thanks. Furthermore, drum corps is nothing more than a pastiche of other, original art forms and has problems with original thinking in its "genre". Real problems.

Anyway, set your expectations accordingly:

-right now, design teams are so risk averse that the fact that Crowns horn book in 2012 actually has "notes" in it is getting discussion here.

-right now, design teams are so risk averse that a corps that is playing Jingle Bells and making numbers on the field is your top scoring unit.

-right now, design teams are so risk averse we're recycling "Mars", "Pictures at an Exhibition", "New World Symphony" and "Phantom of the Opera".

-right now, design teams are so risk averse that the Blue Devils are cannibalizing their own repertoire from fifteen and twenty years ago for show music (but its DADA! ).

Anyhoo, point is, design teams can't even be bothered to use what they have in front of them already . . .much less any other new toys you would give them.

To address the thread itself, woodwinds are an afterthought, and, in my opinion, pointless. You have a patch now that can sound like a oboe or clarinet . . .why even bother with the real thing?

If we want to #### and moan about why we aren't getting stuff that's "wild", then ask those who design the shows . . .those that have been there for twenty plus years in some cases . . .when they're going to start to experiment with what they have rather than whine about what they don't.

Let's have someone bring that up in the instructors caucus.

Enjoy the crickets chirping in response.

Demand more from what's put in front of us now. I guarantee you the genre can be bent many different ways before we need to go running to make bears on unicycles legal.

I don't mean to put words in your post, but I think you mean Risk Averse.