burgerbob Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) One of the "problems" with BD shows is that you need a practiced eye/ear to watch them. Without that, you miss the individual technique, the not-instantly-apparent difficulty, the movement, the guard, the horn book difficulty (also not immediately apparent), etc. It's why the masses (high school kids, general fans, etc) love many other shows like Crown, Madison, Crossmen. Especially when corps like Crown look/sound like they have really difficult shows (which they do- and isn't necessarily good). I was in the same boat years ago- the most entertaining must be the best! And I would be confused as to why that other corps won. Edit: re. the voiceover- It's not my favorite part, but I also have no difficulty not paying any attention to it. Just like Cadets '07, one of my favorite shows ever- no reason for the narration to be annoying if you don't notice it (and the rest of the show is great). Edited July 23, 2012 by burgerbob 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) I also understand why people might not like it... but I just witnessed a new standard in performance and coordinated design. Outstanding! Chuck Naffier Wow...so nice to see this type of post, (and poster) on DCP! Thanks to you, now I will probably have to drive toward WVA in a week because I don't think I can wait 11 days to see them live in PA. Can't wait!!! Edited July 23, 2012 by truman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxfreq1128 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) I agree with Garfield 100%. If they cut the voiceover, I'd be happy to see this show win. As it is, they ought to be getting creamed on GE Music as the voiceover covers up quite a bit of the music, including the *end of the show* which surely should matter quite a bit to Music Effect. But then you'd miss out on all the moments where the music matches or echoes the rhythm of the voiceover -- including the end of the show. I think they're not getting creamed by music GE because they've found ways get the music and the voiceover to [apologies] talk to each other, which hasn't often been the case with voice in drum corps. Edited July 23, 2012 by saxfreq1128 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimedrummer Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Totally agree with the original poster. BD's show had such an impact on me, that the entire time an outstanding Carolina corps was performing, I was trying to digest and absorb what I had just witnessed with BD. Truly an amazing designed and performed program. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 One of the "problems" with BD shows is that you need a practiced eye/ear to watch them. Without that, you miss the individual technique, the not-instantly-apparent difficulty, the movement, the guard, the horn book difficulty (also not immediately apparent), etc. This year's BD fans keep making this point. I would love to learn about this in more detail than has (generally) been said so far. It would probably go a long way to helping the unwashed understand why "Cabaret Voltaire" is so good. This sort of disconnect between the general audience on one hand and the experts (including judges) on the other is not unique to drum corps. In figure skating (and sometimes in other judged sports), it seems to me that the winning athletes are quite often not the ones whose work most appeals to the audience -- and the television "experts" are often of no help in explaining the results. Which makes people suspect the judges are merely playing favorites, or have standards that are of no use to anyone but themselves. I was in the same boat years ago -- the most entertaining must be the best! And I would be confused as to why that other corps won. Have your tastes evolved, or devolved? Are the elements of BD's show you praise above superior to mere "entertainment"? If "entertainment" is so much easier to achieve* than dada, why don't the Blue Devils just throw some in there to keep the mass audience off their back? *I am reminded of George Bernard Shaw's comment on Oscar Wilde's critics, who said his works were simple trifles showing little talent. Shaw's (here paraphrased) reply: "I seem to be the only man in London who is not capable of writing an Oscar Wilde play. Given that his plays remain unique on the stage, it seems that we are indebted to the restraint of local scribes." (It's been years since I encountered the exact quote. This is a paraphrase I found here.) Edit: re. the voiceover -- It's not my favorite part, but I also have no difficulty not paying any attention to it. Just like Cadets '07, one of my favorite shows ever- no reason for the narration to be annoying if you don't notice it (and the rest of the show is great). As easy as ignoring the fracked solo in 1989. (Which I did for years, because I knew that wonderful show only from the original CD, where semis or quarters were substituted.) One can always say that a show is good if you ignore the bad elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgerbob Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 This year's BD fans keep making this point. I would love to learn about this in more detail than has (generally) been said so far. It would probably go a long way to helping the unwashed understand why "Cabaret Voltaire" is so good. This sort of disconnect between the general audience on one hand and the experts (including judges) on the other is not unique to drum corps. In figure skating (and sometimes in other judged sports), it seems to me that the winning athletes are quite often not the ones whose work most appeals to the audience -- and the television "experts" are often of no help in explaining the results. Which makes people suspect the judges are merely playing favorites, or have standards that are of no use to anyone but themselves. Have your tastes evolved, or devolved? Are the elements of BD's show you praise above superior to mere "entertainment"? If "entertainment" is so much easier to achieve* than dada, why don't the Blue Devils just throw some in there to keep the mass audience off their back? *I am reminded of George Bernard Shaw's comment on Oscar Wilde's critics, who said his works were simple trifles showing little talent. Shaw's (here paraphrased) reply: "I seem to be the only man in London who is not capable of writing an Oscar Wilde play. Given that his plays remain unique on the stage, it seems that we are indebted to the restraint of local scribes." (It's been years since I encountered the exact quote. This is a paraphrase I found here.) As easy as ignoring the fracked solo in 1989. (Which I did for years, because I knew that wonderful show only from the original CD, where semis or quarters were substituted.) One can always say that a show is good if you ignore the bad elements. ...Yes. Just because a fan can't see it doesn't mean it's not good. I'm not even talking about the show concept here- I'm just talking about execution. If the sheets were about audience reaction, then they would be COMPLETELY different. Blue Devils play to the sheets, just like every other corps does to a certain extent... BD just does it to win. I'm not sure why it's so bad for a corps to not be scream-worthy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Thanks to you, now I will probably have to drive toward WVA in a week because I don't think I can wait 11 days to see them live in PA. Can't wait!!! Check your PM. You were helpful and gracious the first time we met in PA, let me return the favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsnare Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I think the Blue Devils are selfish. In a time when we want to improve the fan base; entertain the crowd, they want to do just what it takes to win. They are one of the best executing corps ever, but if every corps did this, there would be only the music majors, philosophy majors, and die hard drum corps fans in the seats. Why won't corps realize who comes to shows, and create shows that are appealing to them, and not something that is rewarding to themselves and the judges. If you are honest with yourself, and listened to the applause meter, BD didn't get a round of applause that was commensurate with their 1st place show, and this has happened many times in the past. It feels like; let the other corps bring in the fans, and we will do a show that wins - popular or not, we don't care. I will lead the charge for the BDs when it comes to the quality of the members, but have to question their choice of material in their shows just to win and put the paying fans second. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) But then you'd miss out on all the moments where the music matches or echoes the rhythm of the voiceover -- including the end of the show. I think they're not getting creamed by music GE because they've found ways get the music and the voiceover to [apologies] talk to each other, which hasn't often been the case with voice in drum corps. Hmm... maybe if I could have heard the music I would have picked up on this... I will listen closer for it next time. Edited July 23, 2012 by skywhopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 ...Yes. Just because a fan can't see it doesn't mean it's not good. I'm not even talking about the show concept here- I'm just talking about execution. If the sheets were about audience reaction, then they would be COMPLETELY different. Blue Devils play to the sheets, just like every other corps does to a certain extent... BD just does it to win. I'm not sure why it's so bad for a corps to not be scream-worthy. The first two World Class judging sheets are General Effect Visual and General Effect Music. On both of those pages, the first bullet point under the heading "Repetoire Effect" reads "Audience Engagement", and the first bullet point under the heading "Performers" reads "Performers Engage the Audience". Now, as you indicate, there's lots more to be considered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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