JimF-LowBari Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 they don't serve Strohs Wallys S.O.L then.... Will have to check on Wild Goose as my bro-in-law used to work there when he lived on the MD Eastern Shore. About 15 years, 2 kids, 5 different states and about (lost count) 6 job moves ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecamburn Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Any serious fan of the activity who's been watching realizes that DCI is, structurally, at one of its lowest points in history. I consider myself a serious fan of the activity, but could not disagree more with your assertion that DCI as "at one of its lowest points in history." I'd love to hear your reasoning as to why you think this is true. Where does this sky is falling mentality that's so prevalent around here come from? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnZ Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 off topic posts removed. don't make me get the paddle out, kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) off topic posts removed. don't make me get the paddle out, kids! You getting ready for school Mr Z? We'll be good...... "We're all in our places with bright shiney faces".... RIP Horshack..... Edited August 15, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 I consider myself a serious fan of the activity, but could not disagree more with your assertion that DCI as "at one of its lowest points in history." I'd love to hear your reasoning as to why you think this is true. Where does this sky is falling mentality that's so prevalent around here come from? Really? OK, remember, we're talking about the structure of DCI... Let's start with governance. The corps directors are expected to make decisions for the betterment of DCI as a whole, making their own corps' best interest potentially secondary in their decision process. Considering human nature, it's reasonable to expect this model to blow up. It took 40 years. The G8 proposal demonstrated that the leaders of the activity (at that time) believed that their own corps' best interests were more important than the other corps or the longevity of the activity as a whole. That's not happened since 1972. In the history of DCI, May of 2010 was certainly a low point of dissatisfaction else the G8 proposal would have never happened. The result was a bifurcation of the members of the activity. "Them" vs. "Those". The current board members vs. the old members who were thrown off. A clear split existed among the "brotherhood" of corps. When the G8's intentions were made public, a rabid fan base (mostly on DCP, I'd bet) unloaded, and drove the member directors to scatter like so many mice when the lights are turned on.in order to avoid being implicated with one side or the other. Has there been a serious discussion since? The DCI 5 year plan is gone. We hear, still, rumors that the G8 corps are still threatening to abandon ship. There were no announcements, there was no coordinated effort to show solidarity in reaching a solution. There were lots of bruised egos. The only action that was different was the formation of the TOC shows. Did that feel like a long-lasting solution and, now that they are shown to be unprofitable, what would one suppose is the expected reaction by the G7 corps? We lost 4 corps this year. At least one couldn't make the schedule to Indy. The schedule breaks corps, big ones and little ones. The structure of DCI currently allows very little, if any, funds available for DCI to devote to growing and protecting corps. There needs to be a higher emphasis on growing corps and limiting their ambitions until they are financially ready to make the tour. Those efforts were visisble and viable in past years. No longer. There is no money, and there is little desire on the part of the bigger corps to help protect the existing corps, let alone grow new ones. How about marketing? Seriously? We have to review this? There's no money to support any but the most minimal efforts. Those with great ideas are shunned because great ideas require a majority of support to implement. There's no support. What about the blanket admontition by the G8 that the executive leadership (and staff) of DCI is not capable of executing a plan of revival OR maintenance? That the major corps are fully capable of running the "business" of DCI better than the executive they voted into office all those years ago? Does that suggest a strong, united, viable activity to you? Is Dan A. and his staff capable? Is it fair for a corps to run a ticketing program in direct competiton to DCI, when that corps, as a member of DCI, is signed on as demanding more money from DCI at the expense of other corps? Does this sound like a structure that is healthy, thriving, growing, and spreading the activity to an active fan base? The current actions to solve the problem were visible to any fan who chooses to be involved more deeply. I understand many fans don't care or don't want to be bothered as long as ticket prices aren't too high. But for some of us fans who dig a little deeper, the true state of DCI's structure is not hard to classify as a mess. What's happening now is the necessary first step to finding out if the activity has a future at all and, as I said earlier, I'm more optimistic now than I've been in a long time that there are serious minds addressing these issues. Maybe not singing Kumbaya yet, but they are talking and working and hammering out a way forward. That's what I want to see. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Garfield said a lot of interesting stuff - snipped.... Tres interestante ($1 to Duchess and the Dirtwater Fox). So is this just a few directors saying "Something needs to be done" or is there a coordinated effort with a plan and a timeline? How will we hear about the outcomes? I find the "do we have a future" and "more optimistic than ever" somewhat at odds, unless you mean in the sense that the issue are finally to be addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) Really? OK, remember, we're talking about the structure of DCI... Let's start with governance. The corps directors are ...(respectful snip, I just wanted to reference your post) That's what I want to see. I agree, very interesting perspective. I don't know you Mr. Garfield, but you certainly have seem to have cogent information to back up your assertions. I consider myself a pretty serious long term fan of the activity, but I didn't know any of the details of the inside things you refer to. I am completely unaffiliated with any corps. I live in West Virgina, I never marched in a corps, none of my kids marched in a corps. I don't know any parents locally who have kids in a corps. My perspective is that of a single fan who sits in the seats and loves watching the precision and pageantry of a world class drum corps in an ordinary local show. It's not any single corps that I like, but it's the package for the evening. To me, that is a "drum corps show." With rare exception, I don't do finals. You shouldn't assume everybody knows the things you do, because I certainly don't. You seem to think that the denizens on DCP have some influence or clout, but I don't. I give DCP zero credibility, with the exceptions of certain intelligent posters such as yourself. There are some incredibly knowledgable people who post here. I think their opinions are lost in the sea of idiocy, but when certain people post, I really do listen. I would hate to lose this activity, but I can tell you that I don't have a model for running a successful business in 2013, and we are talking about 20 or so businesses with an organizing business to provide the touring structure. I like the local shows I go to, and the general model DCI uses. I just hope it continues, and if it is about to collapse, I'm probably better off not knowing what goes on in the kitchen. I just want to enjoy the meal. Edited August 16, 2012 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobjective Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Ok, so you say things are set to change. But given almost every change has gone in a direction that i would wager most who would agree with JulesBry would say is a negative direction, why should the promise of 'great and serious change' prompt any of them to stick around? If anything it should send more flooding for the exits. Totally agree! The change has come not for the better. But, for the worse of the activity! This whole G8 concept was a death nail for the lesser competitive corps! While it showed the greed of a few at the top for the majority of the money and prestige really could care less about sharing the wealth or prestige for the common good and welfare of the activity. This past season alone about 4 corps had to cut their seasons short because of financial woes. Another issue that needs to be looked at is the time of going on for corps at regional. Everyone knows the higher placing corps gone on later in the evening. Why not mix it up and have random start times for all of the corps like it use to be? No matter how well a lesser known corps performs in a given night their score will hit a ceiling in the judges' minds so the corps that go on later in the evening will have plenty of opportunity to score higher without a ridiculously high score for that night. There are several things that need to be changed immediately or the fan base will continue to dwindle until most everyone will stay at home and watch on fan network, if they watch at all. In the 80s and 90s shows were packed. Now even at dci finals compared to then, the attendance is sad! And, many people have said they just don't like the direction the activity went. Say what you want. But the fact of the matter is, with the exception of about 4 corps in the tip 12, the activity should not even be called drum corps anymore!! Rather it has become a WGI, BOA hybrid!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breezemont Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) I would hate to lose this activity, but I can tell you that I don't have a model for running a successful business in 2013, and we are talking about 20 or so businesses with an organizing business to provide the touring structure. There is a model that has proven long term sustainability. www.bluedevils.org They are very grassroots as an organization, involved in the community and have been since the 50's. It's a deep and wide organization where not all the eggs are in the A corps basket. There is no way for new organizations to re-create that long term relationship, but it can be pointed to as an example of what CAN work and work well in this activity. Of course it doesn't hurt that it's a beautiful part of the country to live, the weather is way more consistent than anywhere else, lots of local money, etc... Bayonne it's not. But really that's just an excuse. If you want to start a musically oriented youth activity in your community, there is no better example to point to than the Blue Devils. Lots of communities out there are desperate for something well-organized and TRUSTWORTHY for their kids to do especially but not limited to the summertime. Here's a news flash though: IT CAN'T COST THOUSANDS TO PARTICIPATE! That model is NOT sustainable, especially once these music majors all get out in the real world and have to start paying back those student loans on band directors salaries. The grey haired disposable income that is currently dwindling fast will no longer be the bail out for DCI and then what? The 800 pound gorilla is the question WHY it has to cost so much? I see a lot of money changing hands, yet the kids(parents) are paying out the nose and corps are dying for lack of funds. Why? Edited August 16, 2012 by breezemont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) There is a model that has proven long term sustainability. www.bluedevils.org Not every corps is allowed to run bingo games... Edited August 16, 2012 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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