What does BDs’ victory really mean?

[GUARDLING]

good ol Ak, i think on the 03 dvd made a crack on SCV's tape about '#####in"

Hell I judge locally. I'm ok with my tapes going up. I've got nothing to hide.

why do you think its about hiding anything,..as a staff member of 2 corps..as I said...not anyones business..especially another corps...plain and simple....has nothing to do with hiding ..if a corps for some reason wants to give up their critiques, flaws, weaknesses, strengths etc etc to the public..i have no peoblem with that BUT its THEIR choice.....here we go red mark away.......lmao

Edited September 10, 2012 by GUARDLING

[Jeff Ream]

why do you think its about hiding anything,..as a staff member of 2 corps..as I said...not anyones business..especially another corps...plain and simple....has nothing to do with hiding ..if a corps for some reason wants to give up their critiques, flaws, weaknesses, strengths etc etc to the public..i have no peoblem with that BUT its THEIR choice.....here we go red mark away.......lmao

so then the public to do that judges commentary was dropped from the dvds due to space was BS then? Because per DCI, aka the corps, it was. But for what...8 years prior, they were fine with it

[GUARDLING]

so then the public to do that judges commentary was dropped from the dvds due to space was BS then? Because per DCI, aka the corps, it was. But for what...8 years prior, they were fine with it

dont thinks staffs were ever fine with it...but if a corps is....thats fine...as long as it their choice...people dont feel entitled

[Jeff Ream]

i think those who really need to hear the information will get it. AND YOURE RIGHT...ALMOST NO POINT, then there will be a debate and who judged wrong....next the the public will want to decide how its judged and who will judge

you mean like now where the public is saying how they think it should be judged? You mean directors like Hop that go on their blog and whines about who is judging? I mean really dude, you want your cake and to eat it too. And quite frankly your argument comes off as if they DO have something to hide Edited September 10, 2012 by Jeff Ream

[HockeyDad]

you mean like now where the publis is saying how they think it should be judged? You mean directors like Hop that go on their blog and whines about who is judging?

I mean really dude, you want your cake and to eat it too. And quite frankly your argument comes off as if they DO have something to hide

heh. You'd think we're trying to keep nuclear secrets from the Chinese. This is an unimportant little pay-to-play bando circuit.

[GUARDLING]

heh. You'd think we're trying to keep nuclear secrets from the Chinese. This is an unimportant little pay-to-play bando circuit.

everyones got their jobs....thought spectators....spectated...........hey lets go for broke for peoples 30 or 40 bucks.....send out a survey on what corps should eat,, whos on staff, yeah or nay a drill change, sock color,color schemes, food truck layout, plume color, go for it all....might as well

Kiddin aside...although some would love to be involved in everything I just said ...As a judge I wouldnt care if my tapes were public either BUT as a staff member never

Edited September 10, 2012 by GUARDLING

[GUARDLING]

you mean like now where the public is saying how they think it should be judged? You mean directors like Hop that go on their blog and whines about who is judging? I mean really dude, you want your cake and to eat it too. And quite frankly your argument comes off as if they DO have something to hide

its a corps business......DUDE...plain and simple you arent entitled.....Hop can expose or do what he wants....its his corps...thats doesnt give entitlement to anyone else

[Pete Freedman]

its a corps business......DUDE...plain and simple you arent entitled.....Hop can expose or do what he wants....its his corps...thats doesnt give entitlement to anyone else

Have to disagree here. No-one here is saying that we (or anyone) is entitled to the judges tapes, or that we have been robbed in some way, or that any sort of injustice has been done that needs to be redressed by publishing tapes. The question is simply: Who would benefit, and by how much, and who would be harmed, and by how much. If the benefits outweigh the harm, it's a good idea.

.....................Benefit...............Harm

Fans...............Fun.....................-

Members........Instructional..........Humiliation?

Staff................-........................Embarrassment

Other Staff......Instructional.......-

(Other Staff means the staff of other corps, and this is the last time I try to format a table on here...)

The two in bold are are a huge risk and a huge benefit respectively. Corps member humiliation can be managed by allowing corps to censor portions, "The third flag from the left started to turn the wrong way; I'm taking two tenths off" and the corps loses by a tenth, that sort of thing. As for Other Staff, I'm guessing the Mandarins' staff would love BD's tapes. It might help upstart corps the most.

Another solution is for DCP (or somebody) to pay for a shadow panel to attend the event; their 'tapes' would simply be reviews in theory, and nobody could object. Of course you wouldn't have field judges, unless you get them seats up front with opera glasses and simply accept the limitations.

"DCP ShadowTapes, an elite ($) member exclusive!"

[GUARDLING]

Have to disagree here. No-one here is saying that we (or anyone) is entitled to the judges tapes, or that we have been robbed in some way, or that any sort of injustice has been done that needs to be redressed by publishing tapes. The question is simply: Who would benefit, and by how much, and who would be harmed, and by how much. If the benefits outweigh the harm, it's a good idea.

.....................Benefit...............Harm

Fans...............Fun.....................-

Members........Instructional..........Humiliation?

Staff................-........................Embarrassment

Other Staff......Instructional.......-

(Other Staff means the staff of other corps, and this is the last time I try to format a table on here...)

The two in bold are are a huge risk and a huge benefit respectively. Corps member humiliation can be managed by allowing corps to censor portions, "The third flag from the left started to turn the wrong way; I'm taking two tenths off" and the corps loses by a tenth, that sort of thing. As for Other Staff, I'm guessing the Mandarins' staff would love BD's tapes. It might help upstart corps the most.

Another solution is for DCP (or somebody) to pay for a shadow panel to attend the event; their 'tapes' would simply be reviews in theory, and nobody could object. Of course you wouldn't have field judges, unless you get them seats up front with opera glasses and simply accept the limitations.

"DCP ShadowTapes, an elite ($) member exclusive!"

I would have to respectfully disagree..even as far as would Manderins benefit for BDs tapes...not at all..Ive judged alot and the worst thing is a band, corps , winter program, following what is done on the top tier. New instructors are usually at fault giving programs things that arent achieveable and dont focus on the basics for success merely because they thought it was cool.....I will just, In my opinion and many staff I know anyway, its still the corps thing...I just dont understand when spectators stopped being just that . I remember a year I decided not to teach and march an all age corps. All I wanted was to be taught, Dont ask me anything and just let me enjoy that end of it.

Again I will say ( and maybe its me ) I see no reason for opening yet another end of the activity that is someone elses joblet alone another can of worms to be debated.

where does it stop, when is the line crossed, the line blurred, tapes, shows, fashion consultant?..lets let the spectators to the activity write a list of acceptable themes and songs to play.

putting audience aside....why on earth would I give my competition access either. You'll also getting people judging..so to speak..because thats what they are doing...but judging how they thi k it should be judged....from a decade they think is right....what made me think of that was your example on guard....lets say a guard person who dropped....most would think that means .1 off or cant be superior...not at all in guard judging in 2012

Not really into the debate of it all these days, just an opinion of someone involved on a different side of the activity

Edited September 11, 2012 by GUARDLING

[charlie1223]

I would have to respectfully disagree..even as far as would Manderins benefit for BDs tapes...not at all..Ive judged alot and the worst thing is a band, corps , winter program, following what is done on the top tier. New instructors are usually at fault giving programs things that arent achieveable and dont focus on the basics for success merely because they thought it was cool.....I will just, In my opinion and many staff I know anyway, its still the corps thing...I just dont understand when spectators stopped being just that . I remember a year I decided not to teach and march an all age corps. All I wanted was to be taught, Dont ask me anything and just let me enjoy that end of it.

Again I will say ( and maybe its me ) I see no reason for opening yet another end of the activity that is someone elses joblet alone another can of worms to be debated.

where does it stop, when is the line crossed, the line blurred, tapes, shows, fashion consultant?..lets let the spectators to the activity write a list of acceptable themes and songs to play.

putting audience aside....why on earth would I give my competition access either. You'll also getting people judging..so to speak..because thats what they are doing...but judging how they thi k it should be judged....from a decade they think is right....what made me think of that was your example on guard....lets say a guard person who dropped....most would think that means .1 off or cant be superior...not at all in guard judging in 2012

I don't now how you feel releasing judge tapes escalates to making every aspect if a corps show up for vote or consideration. If you release the tapes after the season no harm or foul. Don't have to release all maybe just finals week tapes. While there may be debate it may be a good thing to have judges more accountable for their scores and may lead to better, more consistent judging. A good judge would have no problem having his thoughts shared.

You are acting like you are the only staff member or person who has listened to judges tapes on DCP. I'm not saying my experience matches yours but withholding the most important opinions in drum corps seems silly to me in an activity that is only based on opinion.

Judges in early season do play a roll in shaping design choices, absolutely. By the end the nature if the tapes change and at that point they can judge what the show contains instead of what it's lacking.

Releasing Finals weeks tapes can't hurt...