flammaster Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 The whole accessible thing totally baffles me. I find every drum corps show accessible unless they are very very insipid then I could care less but even then it's still done with top notch musicians so it at least still sounds good. If you mean that you can't whistle to the tune then maybe you should listen to more different kinds of music and stop trying to whistle along and just enjoy it. My 2 cents/ 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Psssst......Luke! I don't know what to say....... I'm verklempt! ($ to Mike Myers) It's too late my young MM, you are already on the dark side.... in fact, you are about to be voted in as Treasurer. In the end, I think we can agree that all of the above bolded statements apply, but when several corps are maxing the boxes, it is still the corps with the "monster" design that wins. A monster trumps the sheets every time! Think back, since 2008, and the design that sets itself apart from the others always wins. In fact, there were two in 2008 and you saw that outcome (the closest possible without a tie). In 2011, no one was close to Cadets. But it wasn't a bunch of great drill sets and good music, performed well....it was big and Spartacus-like. No contest! So.....it can be done. ####, that means I have to handle the money without skimming some off the top for myself.... I agree with you. When we have several corps at the top of their game, like 2008, 2010, 2004, 1999, the corps who wins is usually the one with the best design, or the one who can max the GE caption. This year, it was BD who maxed out GE, and last year, it was the Cadets. They both had programs that down the line could not be denied the top spot, because their design was the best out there according to the judge's sheets. I know people won't always agree with that, but that's how this is. It all comes down to what the people in the green shirts like and say is the best. Like I've said earlier, if someone wants to beat BD to the top, then they have to come out with a show that just can not be denied, and can not be taken down. Every few years, we'll see one of those shows, but lately, it's been BD that comes out every year with that un-deniable attitude and design. If anyone wants to beat them, then they have to get down to business and beat them. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) Just Finals tapes? In fact, the Finals DVDs for the early 2000s do include audio tracks with some judges' commentary. Edited September 9, 2012 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 ####, that means I have to handle the money without skimming some off the top for myself.... I agree with you. When we have several corps at the top of their game, like 2008, 2010, 2004, 1999, the corps who wins is usually the one with the best design, or the one who can max the GE caption. This year, it was BD who maxed out GE, and last year, it was the Cadets. They both had programs that down the line could not be denied the top spot, because their design was the best out there according to the judge's sheets. I know people won't always agree with that, but that's how this is. It all comes down to what the people in the green shirts like and say is the best. Like I've said earlier, if someone wants to beat BD to the top, then they have to come out with a show that just can not be denied, and can not be taken down. Every few years, we'll see one of those shows, but lately, it's been BD that comes out every year with that un-deniable attitude and design. If anyone wants to beat them, then they have to get down to business and beat them. Simple as that. And when a competitor reaches for that level....we all win and the activity moves ahead again...it's a beautiful thing! That's the part of this debate that I think is the most relevant...advancing it by exploring new methods of presentation and sound, while keeping pace with media advances and other means of reaching new audiences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) And when a competitor reaches for that level....we all win and the activity moves ahead again...it's a beautiful thing! That's the part of this debate that I think is the most relevant...advancing it by exploring new methods of presentation and sound, while keeping pace with media advances and other means of reaching new audiences. The best part I 've noticed is that less and less debate and angst is taking place among those that have been in the activity for awhile regarding scores and placements. Unless these fans have some vested intersts in some Corps at the shows, more and more of us leave before the scores are announced at the local shows. Why stay ? What can the judges tell us that we have not already seen and heard for ourselves. We don't need the judges to provide us anything at all. And the judges certainly don't counsel with us, nor care what we think on the Corps in performance either. I've noticed that it is primarily the younger audience members ( or family members or Alums ) that stay for the scores and placements and get really upset and frustrated with the scores and placements oftentimes. While we feel their pain, we've been there and done that, most of us are happy now just take in the shows, talk to folks at the shows we generally havn't seen for awhile, maybe tailgate, shoot the breeze, then go watch the Corps, then leave. Whether BD comes in 3rd or 1st really doesn't matter to us. Most of us have work the next day, or other obligations, and we'd much rather beat the traffic out of the parking lot than to stick around for another half hour or more to find out that the judges ( some of whom are older than us ) really loved the Blue Devils or whomever. We don't really care about what people who don't care about us think anyway, and why should we ? So we don't get upset anymore with this placement and scores stuff .....We're not there when it happens. The bad news is that more and more fans seem to be leaving before the scores are announced now too, and so its not as quick an exit out of the parking lots as it used to be. Edited September 9, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Boy, miss a few days around here and you have to spend a few more days catching up! I'll split this up into topic-oriented posts. Here I'll just say that there are two different topics here now: Why does BD win so much? and Why does BD have a PR problem? (in the east at least) Most of my comments relate to the second question, which is more controversial. About the first, I can only add that while we can presume BD executed better and sold their show better, for the most part we have to trust the judges on that. We can't be on the field with the individual judges hearing what they hear. If there were a slight bias toward BD by some of the judges (say, 3 tenths worth overall) we wouldn't be able to tell. I doubt this is the case, but humans being the imperfect creatures we are, there are probably little biases that do sneak in there, perhaps only at finals. You just have to hope these biases cancel each other out. And then you have to remember that the purpose of the judging is to motivate the corps members to deliver outstanding performances. Mission accomplished. Still, I love Charlie1233's idea of publishing judges comments. It could be limited to the winning corps; after all, they can't complain too much - they won! Or invite corps to allow publication of certain clips they like; for example each corps could choose five minutes out of all their finals tapes to publish. Or at least 2 minutes from each judge. Something like that. Then, on the fan network site, while you are watching a corps, there would be a button for each judge, which become unghosted as that audio clip becomes available. Click it to hear that judge while watching the performance. That would be huge!! Michael, are there pdfs (or whatever) of those scorelines available somewhere? Gotta go, more later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 If there is disconnect between what the judges want and what the audience expects from a champion how can that be resolved then? post the tapes for the entire season on the fan network AFTER the season is over. no competitive advantage to be gained... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) post the tapes for the entire season on the fan network AFTER the season is over. no competitive advantage to be gained... ask you corps staff how they woould feel about that. Edited September 9, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) ask you corps staff how they woould feel about that. should that really matter? actually i think the judges would express more concern than the corps staff. Edited September 10, 2012 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 should that really matter? actually i think the judges would express more concern than the corps staff. sure it matters...its their information and private...who says everyone has to know everything.....the entitlement age.............I dont want comments made good or bad for the public to hear..more so any of my competitors..even after the season....corps have formulas which would be easy to figure out just based on tapes.......never happen again..i guess nevver say never BUT I know a boat load who would fight it ..as some did before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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