Lighting - the next frontier of "staging"

[KAW]

And we wonder what is imploding the activity. Come on folks... Changeable Uniforms every year for 150 performers to match year to year show concept designs; Lighting effects; Projections on screens; Electronics, Amplification; secondary truck/trailer to transport this stuff;... and the money to facilitate all of this design comes from where? The performer dues? Grants? Sugar-Daddy Donations? Ticket sales? What the ****!!!! When will this, "We have to procure more and more and more and more and more money to pay for increased design demand madness" stop!!!!! How about this for a solution to increasing the overwhelming costs: if a designer wants a projection system and lighting effects then make the designer himself/herself pay for the equipment, insurance, and transportation of the equipment or change the design concept!!!!

A great point on "who will pay for this?". Another point is "who will benefit?". As expensive as many of these items are, the revenue paid for them goes somewhere. I have no problem with Cesario promoting new concepts, because that's at least part of how he makes a living. If he weren't promoting new ideas, no one would pay him to design the next new thing, be it a uniform or a light design or a WGI floor or a bus wrap, whatever. Again, I have no problem with him marketing something the market has value for.

As long as the market (i.e. DCI member corps) values what is being sold (innovation), they will pay the market rate for that item. And the market will continue to do so as long as they perceive a return on their investment.

Changing rules don't cause increased operating costs. Designers recommending new approaches don't increase costs. Modified instrumentation doesn't cause increased cost.

The member corps belief that they will have a greater return on their investment by investing in these items causes incresaed costs. If that weren't true we wouldn't have 3 valves, amp'd pits or, in some cases, new unis every year.

Hence, why would a designer pay for something they have promoted or designed? The market has shown it values such things evidenced by spending money on it, and if it didn't then the designers wouldn't do it in the first place.

[MikeN]

The challenges I see are that "local" lighting, the little neon details that were used in WGI last year, don't work outdoors, twice as far away from the audience, in the middle of the afternoon.

Also, stadiums are such different sizes, ages and equipped with different lighting configurations, it's almost a given that the corps would have to travel with a light rig. (I'm assuming that DCI would send the rig - I can't even fathom individual corps paying for or bringing their own.)

I'm assuming one way around that might be a "standard" lighting setup, provided by DCI for their shows, that corps could take advantage of. But the logistical hurdles still remain, especially for a travelling circus that only does one show in a venue and moves on.

I don't know - on a technical level, I don't see how this could become a common thing.

Mike

[perc2100]

The challenges I see are that "local" lighting, the little neon details that were used in WGI last year, don't work outdoors, twice as far away from the audience, in the middle of the afternoon.

Also, stadiums are such different sizes, ages and equipped with different lighting configurations, it's almost a given that the corps would have to travel with a light rig. (I'm assuming that DCI would send the rig - I can't even fathom individual corps paying for or bringing their own.)

I'm assuming one way around that might be a "standard" lighting setup, provided by DCI for their shows, that corps could take advantage of. But the logistical hurdles still remain, especially for a travelling circus that only does one show in a venue and moves on.

I don't know - on a technical level, I don't see how this could become a common thing.

Mike

I'm with ya with; it would take new tech that we've not really seen before in order for lighting to be viable in our activity. The projection screen thing might work though...

[Kevin Powell]

I'm with ya with; it would take new tech that we've not really seen before in order for lighting to be viable in our activity. The projection screen thing might work though...

Think outside that "screen" box. Projecting on moving flags, Projecting Color on different parts of the corps (would make the neutral Crown uni change colors), Backlighting with a projector could create a silhouette effect. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

Add fog and it changes the game again. (you could make it appear like rain and snow while projecting on fog) Really just depends on how theatrical Michael Cesario is talking with his theater background.

[ShortAndFast]

Add fog and it changes the game again.

And people complained that nobody could judge the forms in the Dada show... Just think how awesome it'll be when you can't even SEE the performers' feet.

[bluesman]

How is that a COP OUT??? Who pays their budget now?

The kids with wealthy parents. That's who! Not necessarily the most deserving or most talented, but the one's that can foot the membership dues. The membership dues that have increased at many times the rate of inflation. So bring on the lights, the fireworks, and as many other effects that can be put on yet another semi and moved. What's more important to the fans......... More un-needed junk or more bankrupt corps that have to fold.

This lighting thing is one of the more ridiculous ideas I have seen in a long time.

Edited August 20, 2012 by bluesman

[garfield]

The challenges I see are that "local" lighting, the little neon details that were used in WGI last year, don't work outdoors, twice as far away from the audience, in the middle of the afternoon.

Also, stadiums are such different sizes, ages and equipped with different lighting configurations, it's almost a given that the corps would have to travel with a light rig. (I'm assuming that DCI would send the rig - I can't even fathom individual corps paying for or bringing their own.)

I'm assuming one way around that might be a "standard" lighting setup, provided by DCI for their shows, that corps could take advantage of. But the logistical hurdles still remain, especially for a travelling circus that only does one show in a venue and moves on.

I don't know - on a technical level, I don't see how this could become a common thing.

Mike

And don't neglect that, on any given night throughout the season, there are several shows going on in different parts of the country. DCI owning and delivering "standard" light stantions to every show would be a financial and logistical nightmare.

Not to mention that for DCI to buy the equipment takes approval by a BOD that's made up of corps that have no intention of using the lights and those who do. Getting agreement on laying out the capital costs would be the biggest challenge of all.

I only see this working if each corps supplies its own equipment, and I don't see that logistically possible at all. Many stadiums aren't set up to provide that kind of power supply (and, in our stadium, those outlets are used by the souvie trucks), and putting on a consistant show in vastly different stadium and weather environments would require the equivalent of a full-time lighting professional to stand next to the full-time mixing specialist on the sidelines.

[Kevin Powell]

The kids with wealthy parents. That's who!

And that sir is a broken system within many of the corps. Corps tend to forget that they are also a business that needs to make money to succeed. Making money on dues, handouts and donations will only take them so far.

This lighting thing is one of the more ridiculous ideas I have seen in a long time.

Yep, a long time being since the introduction of amplification and electronics.

Before that was multi-key horns, before that multi-valve horns, and so on and so forth.

I happen to think it is best to prepare for it rather than complain about it. I got my complaining in on all those other changes.

[Spandy]

A large-scale theatrical lighting production with scripts and rigs and spots and floods and whatever else goes into it... not feasible, or worth it... just overall a bad idea.

However, lighting can be used effectively in smaller, more isolated instances; Rhythm X, yeah it wasn't as cool as in the lot where it's dark, but at least the neons in the backdrop were readable during the show. Some people have mentioned Boston under the scrims last year. Or, this year in Minnesota Brass' show, the Bonnie and Clyde "Death Car" has working headlights. They're angled down towards the field, so when they're switched on, the audience can see the pools of light projected in front of it (at a night show anyway). There are also strobes that go off inside the car as it's being shot. (Unfortunately, the lights were added after DCI Minnesota, so you can't watch that vid to see it). All the lights are run from a battery and operated by one of the "Drivers" inside the car. I don't see any problem with corps exploring the use of lighting effects on this type of smaller scale.

[bluesman]

And that sir is a broken system within many of the corps. Corps tend to forget that they are also a business that needs to make money to succeed. Making money on dues, handouts and donations will only take them so far.

Yep, a long time being since the introduction of amplification and electronics.

Before that was multi-key horns, before that multi-valve horns, and so on and so forth.

I happen to think it is best to prepare for it rather than complain about it. I got my complaining in on all those other changes.

You are right about too much dependence on membership fees and donations. But where does the additional revenue come from? More imaginary corporate donors? Creating new businesses that will fund a corps seems to come up a lot when we get into discussions about money. But in the current economic climate very few new businesses survive much less any that would be able to donate any substancial amount of money to a niche activity like Drum Corps.

And in response to your sarcasm about my saying this being one of the more ridiculous ideas in a long time I will rephrase:

The most ridiculous idea since the inception of DCI. Is that better?

Edited August 20, 2012 by bluesman